From Paulo.Trezentos arroba iscte.pt Thu May 8 09:51:02 2003 From: Paulo.Trezentos arroba iscte.pt (Paulo Trezentos) Date: Thu May 8 08:51:02 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Utiliza=E7=E3o_de_SL_pelo_Min=2E_Educa=E7?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E3o?= Message-ID: <3EBA0D82.2060901@iscte.pt> Viva! A ADETTI / Caixa M=E1gica elaborou um breve documento sobre a potencial=20 utiliza=E7=E3o do Software Livre / Linux nas escolas: http://www.caixamagica.pt/documentacao/analiseUtilizacaoSL.pdf Como podem ver, o destinat=E1rio do documento era o Minist=E9rio da Educa= =E7=E3o=20 que nem sequer se digna a discuti-lo ou a pedir mais informa=E7=F5es. Fizemos uma declara=E7=E3o de desagradado com esse feedback que pode ser=20 consultado aqui: http://www.caixamagica.pt/pag/f_notc00.php?id=3D33 A tomada de atitude pode ter algum impacto enquanto tomada n=E3o por uma=20 pessoa em especial, mas por um centro de investiga=E7=E3o com uma certa=20 dimens=E3o. Um abra=E7o. --=20 _____________________________________________________ |Paulo Trezentos (Paulo.Trezentos@adetti.iscte.pt) |http://paulo.trezentos.gul.pt |ADETTI/RSI (IS/IT Research and Development) |FP: 1B13 55A2 5045 2271 BA66 762B B2AE 7EC0 E4B3 0AB7 From vitor.domingos arroba cgd.pt Thu May 8 12:07:01 2003 From: vitor.domingos arroba cgd.pt (Vitor Domingos) Date: Thu May 8 11:07:01 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=5BANSOL-geral=5DUtiliza=E7=E3o_de_SL_p?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?elo_Min=2E_Educa=E7=E3o?= In-Reply-To: <3EBA0D82.2060901@iscte.pt> References: <3EBA0D82.2060901@iscte.pt> Message-ID: <3EBA2C26.8090508@cgd.pt> Viva. E' pena que ninguem se tenha pronunciado, do governo, relativamente a=20 esta "proposta" da ADETTI. Contudo, pareceu-me faltar na proposta algo que fa=E7a refer=EAncia ao TC= O=20 da solu=E7=E3o CaixaM=E1gica. O seu suporte t=E9cnico =E9 tamb=E9m um dos= factores=20 importantes a mencionar. Falta tamb=E9m referir que a provincia da=20 Andalucia vai usar o Linux nos seus PC's, totalizando assim 2 provincias = em Espanha. -- Vitor Domingos Paulo Trezentos wrote: > Viva! >=20 > A ADETTI / Caixa M=E1gica elaborou um breve documento sobre a potencial= =20 > utiliza=E7=E3o do Software Livre / Linux nas escolas: >=20 > http://www.caixamagica.pt/documentacao/analiseUtilizacaoSL.pdf >=20 > Como podem ver, o destinat=E1rio do documento era o Minist=E9rio da Edu= ca=E7=E3o=20 > que nem sequer se digna a discuti-lo ou a pedir mais informa=E7=F5es. >=20 > Fizemos uma declara=E7=E3o de desagradado com esse feedback que pode se= r=20 > consultado aqui: >=20 > http://www.caixamagica.pt/pag/f_notc00.php?id=3D33 >=20 >=20 > A tomada de atitude pode ter algum impacto enquanto tomada n=E3o por um= a=20 > pessoa em especial, mas por um centro de investiga=E7=E3o com uma certa= =20 > dimens=E3o. >=20 > Um abra=E7o. >=20 >=20 >=20 From lopo.almeida arroba sitaar.com Sun May 11 01:10:01 2003 From: lopo.almeida arroba sitaar.com (Lopo) Date: Sun May 11 00:10:01 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]Lu sur Akki.lu Message-ID: <20030510225525.16885.qmail@akki.lu> Bonjour Lista ANSOL- Geral: Votre ami(e) Lopo a trouvé l'article suivant intéressant et a souhaité vous l'envoyer. 1ère démonstration de NGSCB (ex-Palladium) (Date : Vendredi, 09 Mai 2003 @ 07:28) Sujet : Microsoft URL: http://www.akki.lu/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=195&newlang=fra Vous pouvez lire d'autres articles intéressants sur Akki.lu http://www.akki.lu/ From villate arroba gnu.org Wed May 14 13:37:01 2003 From: villate arroba gnu.org (Jaime E . Villate) Date: Wed May 14 12:37:01 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]O Software Livre em Espanha Message-ID: <20030514123719.E390@fe.up.pt> Viva, Espanha est=E1 em =E9poca de elei=E7=F5es e como j=E1 devem saber o Softw= are Livre tem tido um papel destacado na plataforma de v=E1rios grupos pol=EDticos. O p= residente da Hispalinux, Juantomas Garcia, enviou-me um ponto da situa=E7=E3o que p= asso a resumir: * A situa=E7=E3o come=E7ou a aquecer quando o governo de Andaluc=EDa, se= guindo o exemplo da Estremadura, decidiu adoptar o software livre no seu programa= de Internet nas escolas: http://www.hispalinux.es/modules.php?op=3Dmodload&name=3DNews&file=3Darti= cle&sid=3D187 * A seguir, a Estremadura e a Andaluc=EDa resolveram juntar esfor=E7os a= ssinando um acordo: http://www.hispalinux.es/modules.php?op=3Dmodload&name=3DNews&file=3Darti= cle&sid=3D191 * Outros pol=EDticos seguiram o bom exemplo dessas duas regi=F5es. Um ou= tro caso interessante foi a "revolta" dum senador do pr=F3prio Aznar que prop=F5e= a cria=E7=E3o de uma Universidade Livre, via Internet, para Valencia: http://iblnews.com/news/noticia.php3?id=3D74001 * No entanto, a actual posi=E7=E3o do governo central =E9 outra; o minis= tro de ci=EAncia e tecnologia fez declara=E7=F5es que mostram o seu total desco= nhecimento da natureza do software livre, e que foram recebidas com severas cr=EDti= cas por parte da Hispalinux: http://www.elmundo.es/navegante/2003/04/30/softlibre/1051720296.html * Como j=E1 devem saber, ou j=E1 ter=E1 adivinhado quem ainda n=E3o sabi= a, um representante da Microsoft, Steven Ballmet, visitou o presidente Aznar e= fez um generoso donativo de 25 milh=F5es de euros (em software, n=E3o em not= as; algu=E9m sabe a taxa de convers=E3o real de CD's de windows para euros?)= : http://www.elmundo.es/navegante/2003/05/09/empresas/1052474480.html http://elmundo.es/navegante/2003/05/09/softlibre/1052476178.html * Por sorte ainda h=E1 muitos pol=EDticos de bom senso em Espanha, que n= =E3o se deixam enrolar nas tradicionais conversas anti-livre. O senador Juan Alb= erto Belloch, candidato em Zaragoza, tem uma plataforma pol=EDtica muito=20 interessante que recebeu cobertura at=E9 na "Wired": =20 http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,58764-2,00.html http://elmundo.es/navegante/2003/05/12/softlibre/1052738208.html http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2003/05/09/enespecial/1052507955.html Jaime Villate From figueira arroba europe.com Fri May 16 18:38:02 2003 From: figueira arroba europe.com (Vasco Leal Figueira) Date: Fri May 16 17:38:02 2003 Subject: [Mesa AG]Re: [Direccao]Re: [ANSOL-geral]O Software Livre em Espanha In-Reply-To: <20030515081546.A397@fe.up.pt> References: <20030514123719.E390@fe.up.pt> <1052933274.437.4.camel@kant> <20030515081546.A397@fe.up.pt> Message-ID: <1053101420.440.26.camel@kant> --=-kxTb04Y6mMi7Iz4sKwwp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Viva, On Thu, 2003-05-15 at 08:15, Jaime E. Villate wrote: > For=E7a, n=E3o h=E1 problema. Mas se quiseres discutir sobre o tema, pref= eria que o > fizesses primeiro em ansol-geral e logo em Gildot. Eu e muitos outros > associados da ANSOL n=E3o costumamos ler Gildot; a nossa lista costuma es= tar > muito apagada =FAltimamente e no entanto =E0s vezes descubro discuss=F5es= sobre > ANSOL a decorrer no Gildot. Quer queiramos quer n=E3o, o Gildot =E9 um f=F3rum aglutinador de muita gen= te ligada a estas mat=E9rias. Na lista somos menos de duas centenas, cada artigo do Gildot, =E9, no m=EDnimo, lido por 500 pessoas. E o bom disto tud= o =E9 que todos podem participar em qualquer das duas. Qualquer um dos membros desta lista pode participar l=E1 e vice-versa. Porque =E9 que havemos de restringir a um espa=E7o mais reservado, uma discuss=E3o que at=E9 deve interessar a muitas mais pessoas, ainda por cima quando qualquer um dos participantes do espa=E7o reservado pode participar no espa=E7o mais alargado? A nossa lista deve ter actividade =E0 custa de assuntos que sejam especificamente sobre a ANSOL, e que apenas =E0 ANSOL digam respeito. Agora, se tivermos assuntos que t=EAm a ver com a ANSOL, mas tamb=E9m com muitas outras coisas, faz ou n=E3o faz mais sentido que seja abordados, conhecidos e discutidos por mais gente, incluindo n=F3s, obviamente? Eu sei que ao manter a discuss=E3o "mais perto de n=F3s" traz um pouco meno= s de entropia, mas todos n=F3s sabemos que da discuss=E3o nasce a luz, e o isolacionismo n=E3o =E9 caminho para ningu=E9m. Mais, acredito que essa propens=E3o isolacionista =E9 a express=E3o de uma defesa psicol=F3gica con= tra a disson=E2ncia cognitiva, ou seja, contra o "choque de ideias" que provoca uma "disson=E2ncia" nas nossas arrumadas ideias. Faz bem ouvir outras coisas. Por muito disparatadas que sejam. Se n=E3o forem... melhor ainda! Fazer a panelinha =E9 que n=E3o. Por isso, uma vez que =E9 claro para mim que esta not=EDcia/artigo fala de assuntos n=E3o exclusivos da esfera de compet=EAncias, actividades e preocupa=E7=F5es da ANSOL, vou public=E1-lo no Gildot, pois acredito que da= =ED adv=EAm mais vantagens que inconvenientes. Ali=E1s, n=E3o vejo inconvenient= es (abrir um browser n=E3o =E9 inconveniente). Desculpa se fui muito bruto, mas =E9 esta a minha opini=E3o. --=20 Cumprimentos, Vasco Leal Figueira --=-kxTb04Y6mMi7Iz4sKwwp Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: http://students.fct.unl.pt/users/vaf12086/ iD8DBQA+xQ1rsF73AlZ/sV8RArnJAJ46OGGI3wf7bzpYt0L8jxdC+P62HgCfQ7Gl C9T6guQfaLSfQrobwIn3NQs= =te1O -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-kxTb04Y6mMi7Iz4sKwwp-- From villate arroba gnu.org Mon May 19 10:38:01 2003 From: villate arroba gnu.org (Jaime E . Villate) Date: Mon May 19 09:38:01 2003 Subject: [Mesa AG]Re: [Direccao]Re: [ANSOL-geral]O Software Livre em Espanha In-Reply-To: <1053101420.440.26.camel@kant>; from figueira@europe.com on Fri, May 16, 2003 at 05:10:20PM +0100 References: <20030514123719.E390@fe.up.pt> <1052933274.437.4.camel@kant> <20030515081546.A397@fe.up.pt> <1053101420.440.26.camel@kant> Message-ID: <20030519093800.A395@fe.up.pt> On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 05:10:20PM +0100, Vasco Leal Figueira wrote: > Viva, >=20 > On Thu, 2003-05-15 at 08:15, Jaime E. Villate wrote: > > For=E7a, n=E3o h=E1 problema. Mas se quiseres discutir sobre o tema, = preferia que o > > fizesses primeiro em ansol-geral e logo em Gildot. Eu e muitos outros > > associados da ANSOL n=E3o costumamos ler Gildot; a nossa lista costum= a estar > > muito apagada =FAltimamente e no entanto =E0s vezes descubro discuss=F5= es sobre > > ANSOL a decorrer no Gildot. Primeiro que tudo, acho uma viola=E7=E3o das normas mais elementares de n= etiqueta, enviares-me uma mensagem privada, com c=F3pia aos =F3rg=E3os sociais da A= NSOL e depois divulgar a minha resposta numa lista p=FAblica como esta. > Quer queiramos quer n=E3o, o Gildot =E9 um f=F3rum aglutinador de muita= gente > ligada a estas mat=E9rias. Na lista somos menos de duas centenas, cada > artigo do Gildot, =E9, no m=EDnimo, lido por 500 pessoas. E o bom disto= tudo > =E9 que todos podem participar em qualquer das duas. Qualquer um dos > membros desta lista pode participar l=E1 e vice-versa. Sem d=FAvida, eu n=E3o tenho dito nada contra o Gildot. Simplesmente n=E3= o tenho tempo de ler tudo e por isso dou prioridade =E0 leitura desta lista. > A nossa lista deve ter actividade =E0 custa de assuntos que sejam > especificamente sobre a ANSOL, e que apenas =E0 ANSOL digam respeito. > Agora, se tivermos assuntos que t=EAm a ver com a ANSOL, mas tamb=E9m c= om > muitas outras coisas, faz ou n=E3o faz mais sentido que seja abordados, > conhecidos e discutidos por mais gente, incluindo n=F3s, obviamente? Repara que eu dedico v=E1rias horas por semana a divulgar as actividades = da ANSOL em outros meios externos =E0 ANSOL. Em rela=E7=E3o a esta lista (an= sol-geral), esta n=E3o =E9 unicamente para assuntos espec=EDficos da ANSOL (para isso= est=E3o ansol-devel e ansol-socios). Esta lista =E9 um servi=E7o da ANSOL =E0 com= unidade do software livre em Portugal para divulgar e discutir temas gerais sobre o software livre. J=E1 deverias saber isso; acaso n=E3o tens visto as men= sagens com not=EDcias interessantes que envia Lopo de Almeida regularmente? nunca fo= ram consideradas off-topic. > Eu sei que ao manter a discuss=E3o "mais perto de n=F3s" traz um pouco = menos > de entropia, mas todos n=F3s sabemos que da discuss=E3o nasce a luz, e = o > isolacionismo n=E3o =E9 caminho para ningu=E9m. Mais, acredito que essa > propens=E3o isolacionista =E9 a express=E3o de uma defesa psicol=F3gica= contra a > disson=E2ncia cognitiva, ou seja, contra o "choque de ideias" que provo= ca > uma "disson=E2ncia" nas nossas arrumadas ideias. N=E3o =E9 nenhuma quest=E3o termodin=E2mica, nem de disson=E2ncias, nem n= enhum mecanismo de defesa psicol=F3gico. Simplesmente eu escrevi um artigo, muito apropri= ado, nesta lista e estou a pedir-te que se tens coment=E1rios a fazer os envie= s por favor a esta lista para que fiquem colados ao fio desta mensagem e eu os = possa encontrar facilmente. =C9 isso muito pedir? > Faz bem ouvir outras coisas. Por muito disparatadas que sejam. Se n=E3o > forem... melhor ainda! Fazer a panelinha =E9 que n=E3o. O que queres dizer com fazer a panelinha? se for algum ditado portugu=EAs= , desculpa mas n=E3o o conhe=E7o.=20 > Por isso, uma vez que =E9 claro para mim que esta not=EDcia/artigo fala= de > assuntos n=E3o exclusivos da esfera de compet=EAncias, actividades e > preocupa=E7=F5es da ANSOL, vou public=E1-lo no Gildot, pois acredito qu= e da=ED > adv=EAm mais vantagens que inconvenientes. Ali=E1s, n=E3o vejo inconven= ientes > (abrir um browser n=E3o =E9 inconveniente). Mais uma vez: "for=E7a, n=E3o h=E1 problema" (ou seja, "com certeza, n=E3= o vejo nenhum inconveniente em que assim o fa=E7as"). Jaime From villate arroba gnu.org Mon May 19 14:31:01 2003 From: villate arroba gnu.org (Jaime E. Villate) Date: Mon May 19 13:31:01 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]=?iso-8859-1?Q?Instituto_Nacional_de_Administra=E7=E3o?= Message-ID: <20030519133123.F1160@fe.up.pt> O Instituto Nacional de Administra=E7=E3o est=E1 a tr= abalhar em =E1reas que est=E3o dentro do =E2mbito de ac=E7=E3o da ANSOL: "=C1reas tem=E1ticas * Pol=EDticas p=FAblicas/Assuntos Europeus * Gest=E3o p=FAblica/Qualidade/Comunica=E7=E3o organizacional * Gest=E3o dos sistemas e tecnologias de informa=E7=E3o * Assuntos jur=EDdicos * Gest=E3o financeira e contabilidade * Gest=E3o de recursos humanos * Gest=E3o da forma=E7=E3o e pedagogia * Gest=E3o administrativa e secretariado * Comportamento/Lideran=E7a/Comunica=E7=E3o pessoal * Inform=E1tica para utilizadores * Inform=E1tica para profissionais * L=EDnguas estrangeiras" No entanto, quem usar software livre fica exclu=EDdo dos seus cursos em r= ede: "Requisitos tecnol=F3gicos: * Pentium II a 200MHz; * Windows 95 ou 98, Windows ME, Windows NT4.0 com Service Pack 4 ou Windows 2000; * Browser Internet Explorer 5.0 ou Netscape 4.07; * Mem=F3ria RAM 32 MB dependente do sistema operativo; * Resolu=E7=E3o de ecr=E3: 800 x 600 - 256 cores; * Espa=E7o livre em disco: 40 MB; * Placa de som a 16 bits compat=EDvel com Sound Blaster 16; * Microfone com auscultadores incorporados ou microfone e colunas de = som; * Java Jit Compiler e Jit Virtual Machine activos; * Modem 33.6 Kpbs ou superior." Antes de entrar em contacto com os respons=E1veis, gostava saber se algu=E9= m nesta lista conhece algu=E9m do INA ou pode dar-me algumas informa=E7=F5es: ser= =E1 uma Institui=E7=E3o governamental financiada com os nossos impostos? estar=E1= a receber subs=EDdios europeus para o seu sistema de e-learning? Jaime =20 From chbm arroba chbm.nu Mon May 19 14:57:01 2003 From: chbm arroba chbm.nu (Carlos Morgado) Date: Mon May 19 13:57:01 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=5BANSOL-geral=5DInstit?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?uto_Nacional_de_Administra=E7=E3o?= In-Reply-To: <20030519133123.F1160@fe.up.pt>; from villate@gnu.org on Mon, May 19, 2003 at 13:31:23 +0100 References: <20030519133123.F1160@fe.up.pt> Message-ID: <20030519125615.GV653@whisky.cprm.net> On 2003.05.19 13:31:23 +0100 Jaime E. Villate wrote: > * Windows 95 ou 98, Windows ME, Windows NT4.0 com Service Pack 4 ou > Windows 2000; > * Java Jit Compiler e Jit Virtual Machine activos; A Sun não ganhou uma acção em tribunal sobre isto ? -- Carlos Morgado - chbm(at)chbm(dot)nu - http://chbm.nu/ -- gpgkey: 0x1FC57F0A http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ FP:0A27 35D3 C448 3641 0573 6876 2A37 4BB2 1FC5 7F0A Software is like sex; it's better when it's free. - Linus Torvalds From joao arroba silvaneves.org Mon May 19 15:56:01 2003 From: joao arroba silvaneves.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o?= Miguel Neves) Date: Mon May 19 14:56:01 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]Re: [ANSOL-geral]Instituto Nacional de =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Administra=E7=E3o?= In-Reply-To: <20030519125615.GV653@whisky.cprm.net> References: <20030519133123.F1160@fe.up.pt> <20030519125615.GV653@whisky.cprm.net> Message-ID: <1053352379.892.32.camel@home.silvaneves.org> --=-7PFAEMBRm9re1L6pzMrd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sim, mas a JVM da MS s=F3 foi desinstalada a partir do SP1a do Windows XP (pelo menos =E9 o que me disseram). A Seg, 2003-05-19 =E0s 13:56, Carlos Morgado escreveu: > On 2003.05.19 13:31:23 +0100 Jaime E. Villate wrote: >=20 > > * Windows 95 ou 98, Windows ME, Windows NT4.0 com Service Pack 4 ou > > Windows 2000; >=20 > > * Java Jit Compiler e Jit Virtual Machine activos; >=20 > A Sun n=E3o ganhou uma ac=E7=E3o em tribunal sobre isto ? --=20 Jo=E3o Miguel Neves --=-7PFAEMBRm9re1L6pzMrd Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA+yOG7GFkMfesLN9wRAkf4AJ93ekOBKOD8QbTbRRW0AU6jvwH7uACdGPo6 DQpvMQIyFcpki0B+TEcVOTc= =Gn5+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-7PFAEMBRm9re1L6pzMrd-- From chbm arroba chbm.nu Mon May 19 16:00:02 2003 From: chbm arroba chbm.nu (Carlos Morgado) Date: Mon May 19 15:00:02 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=5BANS?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?OL-geral=5DInstituto_Nacional_de_Administra=E7=E3o?= In-Reply-To: <1053352379.892.32.camel@home.silvaneves.org>; from joao@silvaneves.org on Mon, May 19, 2003 at 14:53:00 +0100 References: <20030519133123.F1160@fe.up.pt> <20030519125615.GV653@whisky.cprm.net> <1053352379.892.32.camel@home.silvaneves.org> Message-ID: <20030519135940.GX653@whisky.cprm.net> On 2003.05.19 14:53:00 +0100 João Miguel Neves wrote: > Sim, mas a JVM da MS só foi desinstalada a partir do SP1a do Windows XP > (pelo menos é o que me disseram). > Ah bem visto, nem reparei que o XP não está na lista :) Muito cómicos estes senhores. > A Seg, 2003-05-19 às 13:56, Carlos Morgado escreveu: > > On 2003.05.19 13:31:23 +0100 Jaime E. Villate wrote: > > > > > * Windows 95 ou 98, Windows ME, Windows NT4.0 com Service Pack 4 ou > > > Windows 2000; > > > > > * Java Jit Compiler e Jit Virtual Machine activos; > > > > A Sun não ganhou uma acção em tribunal sobre isto ? > -- > João Miguel Neves > -- Carlos Morgado - chbm(at)chbm(dot)nu - http://chbm.nu/ -- gpgkey: 0x1FC57F0A http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ FP:0A27 35D3 C448 3641 0573 6876 2A37 4BB2 1FC5 7F0A Software is like sex; it's better when it's free. - Linus Torvalds From figueira arroba europe.com Mon May 19 21:11:01 2003 From: figueira arroba europe.com (Vasco Leal Figueira) Date: Mon May 19 20:11:01 2003 Subject: [Mesa AG]Re: [Direccao]Re: [ANSOL-geral]O Software Livre em Espanha In-Reply-To: <20030519093800.A395@fe.up.pt> References: <20030514123719.E390@fe.up.pt> <1052933274.437.4.camel@kant> <20030515081546.A397@fe.up.pt> <1053101420.440.26.camel@kant> <20030519093800.A395@fe.up.pt> Message-ID: <1053371396.439.25.camel@kant> --=-WC0wtAvuLor6synyU8Cc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Viva, On Mon, 2003-05-19 at 09:38, Jaime E . Villate wrote: > Primeiro que tudo, acho uma viola=E7=E3o das normas mais elementares de n= etiqueta, > enviares-me uma mensagem privada, com c=F3pia aos =F3rg=E3os sociais da A= NSOL e > depois divulgar a minha resposta numa lista p=FAblica como esta. Pe=E7o desculpa. Foi por distrac=E7=E3o. Eu vi que a tua mensagem anterior tinha sido enviada para a lista geral e, sem pensar, mandei esta tamb=E9m para l=E1. Pe=E7o desculpa, por isso. De qualquer das maneiras, o in=EDcio da discuss=E3o foi na lista geral. Enfim, n=E3o h=E1 aqui grande secretismo. Mas sim, tens raz=E3o. > > A nossa lista deve ter actividade =E0 custa de assuntos que sejam > > especificamente sobre a ANSOL, e que apenas =E0 ANSOL digam respeito. > > Agora, se tivermos assuntos que t=EAm a ver com a ANSOL, mas tamb=E9m c= om > > muitas outras coisas, faz ou n=E3o faz mais sentido que seja abordados, > > conhecidos e discutidos por mais gente, incluindo n=F3s, obviamente? >=20 > Repara que eu dedico v=E1rias horas por semana a divulgar as actividades = da > ANSOL em outros meios externos =E0 ANSOL. Em rela=E7=E3o a esta lista (an= sol-geral), > esta n=E3o =E9 unicamente para assuntos espec=EDficos da ANSOL (para isso= est=E3o > ansol-devel e ansol-socios). Esta lista =E9 um servi=E7o da ANSOL =E0 com= unidade do > software livre em Portugal para divulgar e discutir temas gerais sobre > o software livre. J=E1 deverias saber isso; acaso n=E3o tens visto as men= sagens com > not=EDcias interessantes que envia Lopo de Almeida regularmente? nunca fo= ram > consideradas off-topic. Claro que n=E3o, mas se as tent=E1ssemos colocar a um n=EDvel mais aberto j= =E1 o seriam considerada off-topic. Ou seja, este =E9 o n=EDvel de aprofundamento adequado para elas. > N=E3o =E9 nenhuma quest=E3o termodin=E2mica, nem de disson=E2ncias, nem n= enhum mecanismo > de defesa psicol=F3gico. Simplesmente eu escrevi um artigo, muito apropri= ado, > nesta lista e estou a pedir-te que se tens coment=E1rios a fazer os envie= s por > favor a esta lista para que fiquem colados ao fio desta mensagem e eu os = possa > encontrar facilmente. =C9 isso muito pedir? Repara, eu n=E3o tinha nenhum coment=E1rio (pertinente ou interessante) sobre o resumo que aqui colocaste, mas se o tivesse, n=E3o me custava nada coloc=E1-lo tamb=E9m aqui. Agora, se o que pedes implicar a transfer=EAncia= de toda a discuss=E3o de um lado para outro, com preju=EDzo de alguns leitores n=E3o lhe terem acesso, acho que sim, talvez seja pedir um pouco. N=E3o por mim, mas por todos aqueles que n=E3o a leriam se assim fosse. Apenas acho que, se existe a oportunidade de mais pessoas o lerem (e acharem interessante), como =E9 o caso, isso =E9 positivo e deve ser encorajado. Mesmo que seja a custo de alguma comodidade em l=EA-la toda aqui na lista. At=E9 porque a discuss=E3o n=E3o seria a mesma... > > Faz bem ouvir outras coisas. Por muito disparatadas que sejam. Se n=E3o > > forem... melhor ainda! Fazer a panelinha =E9 que n=E3o. > O que queres dizer com fazer a panelinha? se for algum ditado portugu=EAs= , > desculpa mas n=E3o o conhe=E7o.=20 Desculpa. Significa (qualquer coisa como) criar uma esp=E9cie de resist=EAncia entre = o interior e o exterior de um grupo social. =C0s vezes sinto que isso acontece. > > Por isso, uma vez que =E9 claro para mim que esta not=EDcia/artigo fala= de > > assuntos n=E3o exclusivos da esfera de compet=EAncias, actividades e > > preocupa=E7=F5es da ANSOL, vou public=E1-lo no Gildot, pois acredito qu= e da=ED > > adv=EAm mais vantagens que inconvenientes. Ali=E1s, n=E3o vejo inconven= ientes > > (abrir um browser n=E3o =E9 inconveniente). >=20 > Mais uma vez: "for=E7a, n=E3o h=E1 problema" (ou seja, "com certeza, n=E3= o vejo nenhum > inconveniente em que assim o fa=E7as"). =D3ptimo. Acho que esta discuss=E3o tem mais de mal-entendido do que de verdadeira desaven=E7a. Por favor n=E3o tomes isto a n=EDvel pessoal, porque n=E3o o = =E9 mesmo. --=20 Cumprimentos, Vasco Leal Figueira --=-WC0wtAvuLor6synyU8Cc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: http://students.fct.unl.pt/users/vaf12086/ iD8DBQA+ySwEsF73AlZ/sV8RAv3KAJ9Qnjz4tsybj0CqyNSRjmSnsl/mCgCaA43l r8GGV6aZ11dUPmdea4pn9b4= =qwAw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-WC0wtAvuLor6synyU8Cc-- From jamatos arroba fc.up.pt Mon May 19 21:19:01 2003 From: jamatos arroba fc.up.pt (Jose' Matos) Date: Mon May 19 20:19:01 2003 Subject: [Mesa AG]Re: [Direccao]Re: [ANSOL-geral]O Software Livre em Espanha In-Reply-To: <1053371396.439.25.camel@kant> References: <20030514123719.E390@fe.up.pt> <20030519093800.A395@fe.up.pt> <1053371396.439.25.camel@kant> Message-ID: <200305192018.12411.jamatos@fc.up.pt> On Monday 19 May 2003 20:09, Vasco Leal Figueira wrote: > > > Faz bem ouvir outras coisas. Por muito disparatadas que sejam. Se n= =E3o > > > forem... melhor ainda! Fazer a panelinha =E9 que n=E3o. > > > > O que queres dizer com fazer a panelinha? se for algum ditado portugu= =EAs, > > desculpa mas n=E3o o conhe=E7o. > > Desculpa. > > Significa (qualquer coisa como) criar uma esp=E9cie de resist=EAncia entr= e o > interior e o exterior de um grupo social. H=E1 vezes em que d=E1 jeito o Jaime fazer estas perguntas pois eu n=E3o = tenho a=20 mesma desculpa. Para mim tamb=E9m n=E3o era claro o que significava fazer=20 panelinha. :-) E mesmo agora que sei o que =E9 continuo a n=E3o saber porq = u=EA.=20 ;-) =2D-=20 Jos=E9 Ab=EDlio From sebrosa arroba artenumerica.com Tue May 20 09:08:01 2003 From: sebrosa arroba artenumerica.com (Jose' Sebrosa) Date: Tue May 20 08:08:01 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]Panelinha Portuguesa In-Reply-To: <200305192018.12411.jamatos@fc.up.pt> References: <20030514123719.E390@fe.up.pt> <20030519093800.A395@fe.up.pt> <1053371396.439.25.camel@kant> <200305192018.12411.jamatos@fc.up.pt> Message-ID: <1053413977.15956.49.camel@paradise> On Mon, 2003-05-19 at 20:18, Jose' Matos wrote: > On Monday 19 May 2003 20:09, Vasco Leal Figueira wrote: > > > > Faz bem ouvir outras coisas. Por muito disparatadas que sejam. Se n= =E3o > > > > forem... melhor ainda! Fazer a panelinha =E9 que n=E3o. > > > > > > O que queres dizer com fazer a panelinha? se for algum ditado portugu= =EAs, > > > desculpa mas n=E3o o conhe=E7o. > > > > Desculpa. > > > > Significa (qualquer coisa como) criar uma esp=E9cie de resist=EAncia en= tre o > > interior e o exterior de um grupo social. >=20 > H=E1 vezes em que d=E1 jeito o Jaime fazer estas perguntas pois eu n=E3= o tenho a=20 > mesma desculpa. Para mim tamb=E9m n=E3o era claro o que significava fazer= =20 > panelinha. :-) E mesmo agora que sei o que =E9 continuo a n=E3o saber por= q u=EA.=20 > ;-) Eu diria que, se os portugueses fizerem panelinha para ninguem saber o que e' fazer panelinha, entao ninguem sabera' o que e' fazer panelinha!=20 Excepto que, normalmente, as panelinhas sao coisas improvisadas e amadoras; ha' sempre aquela vontade de contar ao amigo-que-nao-conta-a-mais-ninguem o que a gente sabe das panelinhas em que esta' metido, e no fim toda a gente "sabe", embora ninguem possa confirmar... :^) Enfim. Para mim, uma panelinha e' um grupo de pessoas que conspira secretamente para algum fim, normalmente pouco importante. Por exemplo, eu chamo "panelinha" a um grupo que conspira para manter os contratos de construcao civil dum Municipio dentro do grupo (porque e' que me lembrei disto?), mas nao chamo "panelinha" a um grupo que consipra para derrubar o governo num golpe de Estado -- a nao ser, claro, que o golpe falhe ou que nem chegue a ser tentado, caso em que eu aplico "panelinha" de forma algo menorizadora da conspiracao e de certa forma ridicularizando-a. Claro que a Lingua e' viva, portanto esta minha interpretacao e' um bocado volatil e depende da situacao. Panelinha nao e' forcosamente uma designacao depreciativa. Mas, por exemplo, eu nao chamaria de "panelinha" 'a conspiracao donde saiu o 25 de Abril de 1974. O meu dicionario diz que panelinha e': conluio, em geral, com fins pouco honestos; tramoia; sucia. Mas eu normalmente associo a "panelinha" a algo pouco importante, pouco duradouro e quase infantil, do genero dos segredos de adolescentes que so' alguns (os da "panelinha") sabem. Sebrosa From rms arroba 1407.org Fri May 23 10:52:01 2003 From: rms arroba 1407.org (Rui Miguel Seabra) Date: Fri May 23 09:52:01 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]Ajuda para o Forum Social Portugues Message-ID: <1053683455.1215.48.camel@roque> --=-UVErbAXHx0KHW28vcIda Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ol=C3=A1, Aten=C3=A7=C3=A3o que at=C3=A9 agora estamos com _pouca_ gente e precisamos= de mais ajuda! A ANSOL est=C3=A1 a dar algum apoio t=C3=A9cnico ao F=C3=B3rum Social Por= tugu=C3=AAs (nomeadamente, v=C3=A3o ter os computadores a correr uma distribui=C3=A7=C3= =A3o de GNU/Linux para browsing, editar documentos, email, etc...). Este evento passa-se na Cidade Universit=C3=A1ria, em Lisboa, nos dias 7, 8, 9 e 10 de Junho, das 9h =C3=A0s 20h (dia 10 =C3=A9 s=C3=B3 de manh=C3=A3= ). Como temos que apoiar quem utiliza esses computadores, e vigiar os equipamentos, =C3=A9 evidentemente necess=C3=A1ria a ajuda de mais pessoas! O ideal seria que no m=C3=ADnimo 6 pessoas que estejam =C3=A0 vontade com GNU/Linux (pois pode ser necess=C3=A1rio desenrascar algum problema inesperado) se comprometessem a estarem presentes por turnos. Os equipamentos v=C3=A3o estar dispersados por tr=C3=AAs =C3=A1reas: 1) registos de participa=C3=A7=C3=A3o 2) sala de imprensa 3) sala de inform=C3=A1tica Em princ=C3=ADpio n=C3=A3o ser=C3=A1 necess=C3=A1rio estar algu=C3=A9m co= nstantemente na =C3=A1rea 1), mas nas outras =C3=A1reas tem de estar obrigatoriamente pelo menos uma pessoa. Como o evento =C3=A9 sempre das 9 =C3=A0s 20, do dia 6 ao dia 9, estava a= pensar em dividir os turnos. Formulei duas hip=C3=B3teses minimais (o que signific= a que era bom que surgisse mais gente...): a) 3 turnos, manh=C3=A3, almo=C3=A7o e tarde, em que a pessoa que est= =C3=A1 no turno do almo=C3=A7o partilha o turno com as pessoas que est=C3=A3o de manh= =C3=A3 e de tarde (metade de cada parte) =3D> 6 pessoas (uma por cada uma das salas 2) e 3) em cada altura) b) 2 turnos, manh=C3=A3 e tarde, com 3 pessoas cada =3D> 6 pessoas (duas por cada uma das salas 2) e 3) em cada altura Provavelmente o ideal seria uma terceira hip=C3=B3tese interm=C3=A9dia: c) cen=C3=A1rio a) com duas pessoas por turno e por sala Para coordenar quem ficaria em que turnos, preciso que as pessoas que se oferecerem para ajudar indiquem qual a sua disponibilidade durante estes dias, e que uma vez definido o plano de presen=C3=A7as se comprometessem a n=C3=A3o faltar :) Abra=C3=A7os, Rui --=20 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? Please AVOID sending me WORD, EXCEL or POWERPOINT attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html --=-UVErbAXHx0KHW28vcIda Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA+ze7/o+C50no0+t4RAg1vAKDEz+t3zW9LxWOOfV4ioQoQDVY65ACbBZbU aRU40I9mwhndSLDVW/nhUL0= =25eY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-UVErbAXHx0KHW28vcIda-- From aife arroba netvisao.pt Fri May 23 14:54:02 2003 From: aife arroba netvisao.pt (=?iso-8859-1?q?Andr=E9=20Esteves?=) Date: Fri May 23 13:54:02 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]=?iso-8859-1?q?Adapta=E7=E3o=20de=20documentos=20em=20brazileiro=20para?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=20portugu=EAs?= Message-ID: <200305231356.33234.aife@netvisao.pt> Adaptação de documentos em brazileiro para português Caros, Dada a enorme quantidade de documentos e textos de ajuda em português do Brazil e estando informado e interessado em colaborar no projecto debian.com.pt, ocorreu-me que uma ferramenta de análise gramatical e lexical poderia acelarar brutalmente a adptação de muitos textos a um português europeu. Primeiro, Porque razão? Bem.. Eu não fico satisfeito com os textos brasileiros... O calão informático no brazil, torna-se muits vezes intolerável.. No entanto, temos uma enorme decalagem entre populações.. Considerando uma percentagem igual de pessoas que se voluntariem para o software livre (é uma estimativa) uma diferença de 170 milhões de pessoas para 10 milhões torna óbvia quem irá afundar quem com os seus documentos criados... Assim vou explorar uma solução que analizando um texto, permita: 1 Dar um indicador de proximidade do texto com o português europeu ou o brasileiro (análise estatística de frequência de palavras) 2 Substituição lexical 3 Substituição gramatical Antes de começar, gostaria de pedir á comunidade listas de recursos disponiveis livremente na internet. procuro gramáticas, dicionários, listas de calão especializado, artigos sobre as diferenças linguísticas dos dois povos, etc. Ou talvez alguém que já tenha começado o que eu pretendo começar... :) Um abraço e agradecendo a vossa atenção, André Esteves From bruno.rodrigues arroba litux.org Fri May 23 17:39:01 2003 From: bruno.rodrigues arroba litux.org (Bruno Rodrigues) Date: Fri May 23 16:39:01 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Adapta=E7=E3o?= de documentos em brazileiro para =?ISO-8859-1?Q?portugu=EAs?= In-Reply-To: <200305231356.33234.aife@netvisao.pt> References: <200305231356.33234.aife@netvisao.pt> Message-ID: <1053704228.3884.17.camel@localhost.localnet> --=-btSMyKnWDkCbxRTBX5Wk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A Sex, 2003-05-23 =E0s 13:56, Andr=E9 Esteves escreveu: > Adapta=E7=E3o de documentos em brazileiro para portugu=EAs >=20 > Caros, >=20 > Dada a enorme quantidade de documentos e textos de ajuda em portugu=EAs d= o=20 > Brazil e estando informado e interessado em colaborar no projecto=20 > debian.com.pt, ocorreu-me que uma ferramenta de an=E1lise gramatical e le= xical=20 > poderia acelarar brutalmente a adpta=E7=E3o de muitos textos a um portugu= =EAs=20 > europeu. Oi. A minha ideia =E9 essa - fornecer ferramentas que ajudem as tradu=E7=F5es. Ter uma interface web que permita editar os .po, .ts e texto em geral (descri=E7=F5es do ddts p.ex), mostrando ao lado a tradu=E7=E3o (se existen= te) do pt_BR, a tradu=E7=E3o do google (ou outro dicion=E1rio), e sugest=F5es a partir de uma base de dados local, onde guardar=EDamos frases comuns, tipo "Save" -> "Guardar", "Are you sure?" -> "Tem a certeza?", etc. > Primeiro, Porque raz=E3o? Bem.. Eu n=E3o fico satisfeito com os textos=20 > brasileiros... O cal=E3o inform=E1tico no brazil, torna-se muits vezes=20 > intoler=E1vel.. No entanto, temos uma enorme decalagem entre popula=E7=F5= es..=20 > Considerando uma percentagem igual de pessoas que se voluntariem para o=20 > software livre (=E9 uma estimativa) uma diferen=E7a de 170 milh=F5es de p= essoas=20 > para 10 milh=F5es torna =F3bvia quem ir=E1 afundar quem com os seus docum= entos=20 > criados... Acho que mais importante que a quantidade de pessoas, =E9 a mentalidade delas. Ser=E1 que o Portugu=EAs de Portugal est=E1 disposto a usar e/ou a traduzir para a sua l=EDngua, ou =E9 mais de se resignar e usar o ingl=EAs ?=20 Dos casos que tenho sondado aqui pelo trabalho, a maioria recusa-se terminantemente a ter o linux em PT, e =E9 agn=F3stico acerca de valer a pena estar traduzido ("se traduzirem, =E9 porreiro, mas eu n=E3o uso" ) (Estou neste momento a acabar as tradu=E7=F5es do opie para o lan=E7amento = da vers=E3o 1.0, se algu=E9m quiser ajudar apite.) Mesmo que n=E3o d=EA em nada, a tarefa de tradu=E7=E3o =E9-me uma lufada de= ar fresco. D=E1 para desanuviar da programa=E7=E3o, e para re-lembrar que aind= a falo portugu=EAs. :) > Assim vou explorar uma solu=E7=E3o que analizando um texto... Podes contar comigo > Um abra=E7o e agradecendo a vossa aten=E7=E3o, Um abra=E7o e obrigado pela aten=E7=E3o > Andr=E9 Esteves --=20
--=-btSMyKnWDkCbxRTBX5Wk Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA+zkAkbMTNtJey1hkRAoGRAJ9zudrC80SJAJFj0if2hVgSjUIwBwCggB0B sw6JBDjpYT9s0kp9h+hX2b4= =DZBf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-btSMyKnWDkCbxRTBX5Wk-- From villate arroba gnu.org Fri May 23 17:44:01 2003 From: villate arroba gnu.org (Jaime E . Villate) Date: Fri May 23 16:44:01 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=5BANSOL-geral=5DAdapta=E7=E3o_de_documentos_em_brazileir?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?o_para_portugu=EAs?= In-Reply-To: <200305231356.33234.aife@netvisao.pt>; from aife@netvisao.pt on Fri, May 23, 2003 at 01:56:33PM +0100 References: <200305231356.33234.aife@netvisao.pt> Message-ID: <20030523164412.P397@fe.up.pt> On Fri, May 23, 2003 at 01:56:33PM +0100, Andr=E9 Esteves wrote: >=20 > Primeiro, Porque raz=E3o? Bem.. Eu n=E3o fico satisfeito com os textos=20 > brasileiros... O cal=E3o inform=E1tico no brazil, torna-se muits vezes=20 > intoler=E1vel.. No entanto, temos uma enorme decalagem entre popula=E7=F5= es..=20 > Considerando uma percentagem igual de pessoas que se voluntariem para o= =20 > software livre (=E9 uma estimativa) uma diferen=E7a de 170 milh=F5es de= pessoas=20 > para 10 milh=F5es torna =F3bvia quem ir=E1 afundar quem com os seus doc= umentos=20 > criados... e para al=E9m dessa enorme "decalagem entre popula=E7=F5es", julgo que um= factor importante contra este tipo de iniciativas em Portugal =E9 o facto dos portugueses tolerarem melhor outras l=EDnguas estrangeiras. Na Am=E9rica Latina e em Espanha =E9 mais f=E1cil encontrar pessoas dispostas a ajudar= a traduzir porque uma maior percentagem acham indispens=E1vel substituir um manual original em ingl=EAs por uma tradu=E7=E3o para a l=EDngua local. Eu j=E1 tentei algumas iniciativas de tradu=E7=E3o para o Portugu=EAs e o= Espanhol e no caso do Portugu=EAs nunca tive muito sucesso. > Assim vou explorar uma solu=E7=E3o que analizando um texto, permita: >=20 > 1 Dar um indicador de proximidade do texto com o portugu=EAs europeu ou= o=20 > brasileiro (an=E1lise estat=EDstica de frequ=EAncia de palavras) >=20 > 2 Substitui=E7=E3o lexical >=20 > 3 Substitui=E7=E3o gramatical Parece bastante interessante e =FAtil. Embora muito dif=EDcil. Fazer uma substitui=E7=E3o autom=E1tica como vetor --> vector =E9 f=E1cil, mas elim= inar esse cal=E3o=20 que torna bastante confusas algumas tradu=E7=F5es parece-me uma tarefa qu= e tem que ser feita manualmente com ajuda de v=E1rios volunt=E1rios. > Antes de come=E7ar, gostaria de pedir =E1 comunidade listas de recursos= =20 > disponiveis livremente na internet. procuro gram=E1ticas, dicion=E1rios= , listas=20 > de cal=E3o especializado, artigos sobre as diferen=E7as lingu=EDsticas = dos dois=20 > povos, etc. Ou talvez algu=E9m que j=E1 tenha come=E7ado o que eu prete= ndo=20 > come=E7ar... :) Provavelmente isto n=E3o =E9 o que procuras, mas aproveito para dizer que= eu iniciei h=E1 alguns anos um gloss=E1rio "vivo" ingl=EAs-portugu=EAs para = temas de inform=E1tica. Na vers=E3o Espanhola eu costumo fazer revis=F5es e altera= =E7=F5es mas na vers=E3o portuguesa n=E3o me atrevo a julgar o valor das tradu=E7=F5es, e= n=E3o tenho conseguido encontrar algu=E9m disposto a ser o editor oficial (por acaso = est=E1s interessado?): http://quark.fe.up.pt/orca/index.pt.html Um abra=E7o, Jaime From rms arroba 1407.org Fri May 23 18:36:01 2003 From: rms arroba 1407.org (Rui Miguel Seabra) Date: Fri May 23 17:36:01 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]Ajuda para o Forum Social Portugues In-Reply-To: <200305231716.04217.mjvm@mega.ist.utl.pt> References: <1053683455.1215.48.camel@roque> <200305231716.04217.mjvm@mega.ist.utl.pt> Message-ID: <1053711299.1215.150.camel@roque> --=-O2ax47eaE9HPTv51zMGg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ol=C3=A1, Desculpa enviar para a lista mas o teu email deu erro (bounce) quando te te= ntei responder. Obrigado pela tua oferta... Posso contar contigo para S=C3=A1bado (7) =C3=A0 tarde e Ter=C3=A7a de manh= =C3=A3 (10) ? Cumprimentos, Rui On Fri, 2003-05-23 at 16:16, Mario Morgado wrote: > Boas. >=20 > Eu nao pertenco 'a ANSOL mas estou disponivel para ajudar. > O unico senao neste momento e' que no dia 9 tenho um teste (provavelmente= as=20 > 19h), mas penso que combinando os turnos nao havera' problemas. > inte' >=20 > On Friday 23 May 2003 10:50, Rui Miguel Seabra wrote: > > Ol=C3=A1, > > > > Aten=C3=A7=C3=A3o que at=C3=A9 agora estamos com _pouca_ gente e precis= amos de mais ajuda! > > > > > > A ANSOL est=C3=A1 a dar algum apoio t=C3=A9cnico ao F=C3=B3rum Social= Portugu=C3=AAs > > (nomeadamente, v=C3=A3o ter os computadores a correr uma distribui=C3= =A7=C3=A3o de > > GNU/Linux para browsing, editar documentos, email, etc...). > > > > Este evento passa-se na Cidade Universit=C3=A1ria, em Lisboa, nos dia= s 7, > > 8, 9 e 10 de Junho, das 9h =C3=A0s 20h (dia 10 =C3=A9 s=C3=B3 de manh= =C3=A3). > > > > Como temos que apoiar quem utiliza esses computadores, e vigiar os > > equipamentos, =C3=A9 evidentemente necess=C3=A1ria a ajuda de mais pess= oas! > > > > O ideal seria que no m=C3=ADnimo 6 pessoas que estejam =C3=A0 vontade= com > > GNU/Linux (pois pode ser necess=C3=A1rio desenrascar algum problema > > inesperado) se comprometessem a estarem presentes por turnos. > > > > Os equipamentos v=C3=A3o estar dispersados por tr=C3=AAs =C3=A1reas: > > 1) registos de participa=C3=A7=C3=A3o > > 2) sala de imprensa > > 3) sala de inform=C3=A1tica > > > > Em princ=C3=ADpio n=C3=A3o ser=C3=A1 necess=C3=A1rio estar algu=C3=A9= m constantemente na =C3=A1rea > > 1), mas nas outras =C3=A1reas tem de estar obrigatoriamente pelo menos = uma > > pessoa. > > > > Como o evento =C3=A9 sempre das 9 =C3=A0s 20, do dia 6 ao dia 9, esta= va a pensar > > em dividir os turnos. Formulei duas hip=C3=B3teses minimais (o que sign= ifica > > que era bom que surgisse mais gente...): > > > > a) 3 turnos, manh=C3=A3, almo=C3=A7o e tarde, em que a pessoa que e= st=C3=A1 no > > turno do almo=C3=A7o partilha o turno com as pessoas que est=C3=A3o de = manh=C3=A3 e de > > tarde (metade de cada parte) > > =3D> 6 pessoas (uma por cada uma das salas 2) e 3) em cada altur= a) > > > > b) 2 turnos, manh=C3=A3 e tarde, com 3 pessoas cada > > =3D> 6 pessoas (duas por cada uma das salas 2) e 3) em cada altu= ra > > > > Provavelmente o ideal seria uma terceira hip=C3=B3tese interm=C3=A9dia: > > > > c) cen=C3=A1rio a) com duas pessoas por turno e por sala > > > > Para coordenar quem ficaria em que turnos, preciso que as pessoas que s= e > > oferecerem para ajudar indiquem qual a sua disponibilidade durante este= s > > dias, e que uma vez definido o plano de presen=C3=A7as se comprometesse= m a > > n=C3=A3o faltar :) > > > > Abra=C3=A7os, Rui --=20 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? Please AVOID sending me WORD, EXCEL or POWERPOINT attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html --=-O2ax47eaE9HPTv51zMGg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA+zlvDo+C50no0+t4RAsnJAKCgUB8i1jyNRK2f+NDBxuYhNmaThwCaA8Xn uxmziyOCjMRMs7c5xMKrwRA= =0m/0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-O2ax47eaE9HPTv51zMGg-- From aife arroba netvisao.pt Fri May 23 21:26:01 2003 From: aife arroba netvisao.pt (=?iso-8859-15?q?Andr=E9=20Esteves?=) Date: Fri May 23 20:26:01 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral] =?iso-8859-15?q?Adapta=E7=E3o=20de=20documentos=20em brazileiro=20para?= =?iso-8859-15?q?=20portugu=EAs?= In-Reply-To: <1053704228.3884.17.camel@localhost.localnet> References: <200305231356.33234.aife@netvisao.pt> <1053704228.3884.17.camel@localhost.localnet> Message-ID: <200305231717.34549.aife@netvisao.pt> On Friday 23 May 2003 16:37, Bruno Rodrigues wrote: > Será que o Português de Portugal está disposto a usar e/ou a traduzir > para a sua língua, ou é mais de se resignar e usar o inglês ? > Dos casos que tenho sondado aqui pelo trabalho, a maioria recusa-se > terminantemente a ter o linux em PT, e é agnóstico acerca de valer a > pena estar traduzido ("se traduzirem, é porreiro, mas eu não uso" ) O que me leva a pensar numa tradução de textos para português não é um espírito, digamos, nacionalista... Recentemente, encontrei alguns míudos da escola secundária que mostraram alguma vontade de mexer em computadores e falei-lhes no Linux... Bem.. sabem qual é o grande problema deles? Não gostam da disciplina de inglês... (na realidade não gostam de muitas disciplinas...) tristres tristezas... No entanto, notei que o seu problema básico é a falta de auto-confiança e de acesso a coisas como uma boa biblioteca, hábitos de leitura, espaço para experimentarem e contactos com míudos semelhantes. Coisas que podem encontrar em parte no software livre e na internet. É minha impressão que a maior parte das pessoas que têm gosto pela técnica e ciência veio de meios relativamente abastados e/ou progressistas e que uma grande percentagem cresceram em meios urbanos. Não é a situação de muitas crianças... E eu quero alterar a situação. Documentos em português para a utilização e aprendizagem são uma maneira de lhes permitirem "entrar no caminho", mais cedo e com estímulo para então aprender e aceder a toda a informação num mundo poliglota. Pensem globalmente, ajam localmente. Um abraço, André Esteves PS-> Porquê a ferramenta estatística para determinar a proximidade do texto do português europeu ou brazileiro canónico? Uma razão muito simples... Permite-nos ter um indicador que facilite uma decisão no uso da ferramenta de tradução ou passagem a um grupo tradutor... From joao arroba silvaneves.org Fri May 23 22:44:02 2003 From: joao arroba silvaneves.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o?= Miguel Neves) Date: Fri May 23 21:44:02 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=5BANSOL-geral=5DAdapta=E7=E3o?= de documentos em brazileiro para =?ISO-8859-1?Q?portugu=EAs?= In-Reply-To: <20030523164412.P397@fe.up.pt> References: <200305231356.33234.aife@netvisao.pt> <20030523164412.P397@fe.up.pt> Message-ID: <1053722482.2354.20.camel@home.silvaneves.org> --=-Jn3H2ai/X6iIDqd57KKw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A Sex, 2003-05-23 =E0s 16:44, Jaime E . Villate escreveu: > Provavelmente isto n=E3o =E9 o que procuras, mas aproveito para dizer que= eu > iniciei h=E1 alguns anos um gloss=E1rio "vivo" ingl=EAs-portugu=EAs para = temas de > inform=E1tica. Na vers=E3o Espanhola eu costumo fazer revis=F5es e altera= =E7=F5es mas na > vers=E3o portuguesa n=E3o me atrevo a julgar o valor das tradu=E7=F5es, e= n=E3o tenho > conseguido encontrar algu=E9m disposto a ser o editor oficial (por acaso = est=E1s > interessado?): > http://quark.fe.up.pt/orca/index.pt.html >=20 No INESC foi feito um gloss=E1rio desses h=E1 alguns anos (in=EDcios da d= =E9cada de 90). O resultado acabou por ser um dicion=E1rio separado por =E1rea cient=EDficas: havia palavras traduzidas de forma diferente para Sistemas Operativos, Bases de Dados e Inteleig=EAncia Artificial... Se algu=E9m estiver interessado, eu acho que ainda tenho uma c=F3pia num do= s meus discos antigos. A primeira vez que vi isso foi atrav=E9s do GNU Translation Project. --=20 Jo=E3o Miguel Neves --=-Jn3H2ai/X6iIDqd57KKw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA+zodyGFkMfesLN9wRAnyuAJ9jhR16Qd64Np+KvX6Ufk8iIWHjLwCfaamE 6vw9VsunrULMJ1Uf9VUcRvM= =D4u+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Jn3H2ai/X6iIDqd57KKw-- From bruno.rodrigues arroba litux.org Mon May 26 21:28:01 2003 From: bruno.rodrigues arroba litux.org (Bruno Rodrigues) Date: Mon May 26 20:28:01 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]=?iso-8859-1?q?Adapta=E7=E3o=20de=20documentos=20em=20brazileiro=20para?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?portugu=EAs?= In-Reply-To: <200305231356.33234.aife@netvisao.pt> References: <200305231356.33234.aife@netvisao.pt> Message-ID: <1053977151.13486.27.camel@localhost.localnet> --=-ngcDMK5tCYGLcZwapJPP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A Sex, 2003-05-23 =E0s 13:56, Andr=E9 Esteves escreveu: > Adapta=E7=E3o de documentos em brazileiro para portugu=EAs >=20 > Caros, >=20 > Dada a enorme quantidade de documentos e textos de ajuda em portugu=EAs d= o=20 > Brazil e estando informado e interessado em colaborar no projecto=20 > debian.com.pt, ocorreu-me que uma ferramenta de an=E1lise gramatical e le= xical=20 > poderia acelarar brutalmente a adpta=E7=E3o de muitos textos a um portugu= =EAs=20 > europeu. Para quem estiver interessado em colaborar no projecto - e lembrem-se que a tradu=E7=E3o de um documento ou de um pacote da Debian =E9 propagado para as outras distribui=E7=F5es - e n=E3o queira usar esta lista por ser off-topic, pode subscrever a mailing list existente em devel-subscribe@debian.com.pt Embora eu e o Lu=EDs Henriques tenhamos algumas ideias sobre o roadmap do projecto, s=E3o bem vindas mais cabe=E7as para ajudar a pensar sobre ele. Obrigado. --=20
--=-ngcDMK5tCYGLcZwapJPP Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA+0mo/bMTNtJey1hkRAjBtAJ9yZHmcVyF4DZ5aqhku3QROj5B4eQCeNWAR XcNxm/A/ch/ZLcIIr4taCiA= =1oRa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-ngcDMK5tCYGLcZwapJPP-- From lopo.almeida arroba sitaar.com Wed May 28 19:28:01 2003 From: lopo.almeida arroba sitaar.com (Lopo de Almeida) Date: Wed May 28 18:28:01 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]Fw: Michael's Minute: Gates at my Alma Mater Message-ID: <027c01c3253d$30c8bac0$8ae7fea9@paula> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0276_01C32545.10FA0DE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lindows.com Michael's MinuteInteresting read about Mr. Gates. Altough he (Michael) had personal interests the facts are the facts ;-) Best, Lopo -----Mensagem Original----- De: Michael Robertson Para: linuxsales@sitaar.com Enviada em: quarta-feira, 28 de Maio de 2003 17:37 Assunto: Michael's Minute: Gates at my Alma Mater If this message is not displaying properly, click here to launch it in your browser. Michael's Minute: Gates at my Alma Mater This week Bill Gates came to my alma mater to speak. I have to admit that I was less than thrilled to have UCSD roll out the red carpet for him, but it's understandable since he is the richest man in the world and runs the richest company in the world. I started to think about the young people who would be in attendance though, and that they were in diapers when Microsoft started. They've grown up in a Microsoft-only world, that's the only thing they know and few have any perspective about how Microsoft came to dominate the PC business. In the absence of information otherwise, they'll assume that it was through healthy, free enterprise -- which I don't believe is true. Anyone who tracks the PC business, recognizes that Microsoft has clearly been on a propaganda campaign for the last few years to clean up their image. They have been spending big money in an effort to do so on TV, in print and public appearances. They would like the world to think of Microsoft as an innovative company and of Mr. Gates as a visionary and a philanthropist. Mr. Gates is clearly very smart and Microsoft is a vicious competitor, but I'm not so sure the facts indicate they are innovative or visionary. So I've put together a two-page background on Mr. Gates and Microsoft to add some historical perspective to the debate, which I passed out to those in attendance. I hope you find it helpful to form your own conclusions. Fact Sheet On Bill Gates and the Microsoft Corporation Q: Can you provide some background on Bill Gates? A: Bill Gates was born in 1955 and founded the Microsoft Corporation in 1975 with Paul Allen. Mr. Gates was CEO and Chairman of Microsoft until 2000, when he gave up the CEO title to Steve Ballmer. During that time, Microsoft became the largest and richest software company in the world, with $46 billion in the bank and adding nearly one billion per month to that total. It has made Bill Gates the richest man in the world with an estimated wealth of $54.44 billion dollars or $187 for every man, woman and child in the United States. Q: Can you provide a brief history of Microsoft? A: In the early 1980s, IBM asked Microsoft to produce an operating system for their upcoming "personal computer." That product became MS DOS and made billions for Microsoft. Microsoft followed that up with Microsoft Windows and the components of Microsoft Office (Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel and Microsoft PowerPoint). Q: Doesn't that make Microsoft the most innovative PC software company? A: Virtually every successful Microsoft product was either purchased from another company, or a direct copy of an existing company's successful product. Microsoft's first major success, MS DOS, was purchased from another company and renamed from QDOS. Microsoft Windows was a copy of Apple's innovative Macintosh operating system. Microsoft Word (1983) was a copy of Wordperfect (1982). Microsoft Excel (1985) was a copy of Lotus 1-2-3 (1983). Using revenue from their monopolies, Microsoft purchased PowerPoint (from Forethought), Frontpage (Vermeer), and Visio (Shapewear). Q: The history of PC software is made up of companies borrowing ideas from others, so what is wrong with that? A: To some degree, almost all technology companies build on existing ideas. Microsoft, however, has often engaged in wholesale copying without adding much. With many of the original companies gone or withering, Microsoft is embarking on a calculated plan to rewrite history and position themselves as the original innovator. For example, Microsoft now claims that they are the sole inventor of "windows" and no other company can use that term -- in spite of the fact that Microsoft Windows was such a close copy of the Apple Macintosh that it triggered a lawsuit upon its release (See http://law.richmond.edu/jolt/v1i1/myers.html). Q: Even if they're not innovative, Microsoft's products are used so widely that they must be making great products, which makes Microsoft a great company, right? A: Normally, when a company enjoys success it's a sign of a good company serving their customers. While Microsoft employees have surely worked hard, their success has been tainted by decades of illegal actions by Microsoft's management to secure, maintain and extend their monopoly position. After the success of MS DOS, a competing product emerged called DR DOS, causing MS to lower their prices. Bill Gates wrote in an e-mail, "I believe people underestimate the impact DR-DOS has had on us in terms of pricing" (May 18, 1989). So Gates gave orders to executives at Microsoft to purposely sabotage DR DOS. "Make sure it [DR DOS] has problems running our software in the future." And where it didn't have problems, programmers were instructed to create bogus error messages saying that it did. The tactic worked and DR DOS was forced out of business, leaving the Microsoft monopoly. Years later, MS paid more than $100 million to settle this case -- long after DR DOS was no longer a threat (See www.drdos.com/fullstory/factstat.html). With the MS DOS monopoly as a foundation, Microsoft continued a series of illegal actions designed to extend their monopoly to additional products, including Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office. For example, they stifled competition by threatening and extorting computer manufacturers to enter into licenses agreeing to only carry Microsoft products. By the time the Justice Department caught up to them and filed two antitrust cases for a wide range of unfair and anti-competitive actions (1993, 1996), Microsoft had cemented a massive monopoly which gave them hoards of cash to fight any company -- or even the government. Microsoft settled the first case, agreeing to change its illegal marketing practices and was found guilty in the second case (See www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/business/longterm/microsoft/documents.htm). Q: Isn't this just a case of the losing companies complaining because they couldn't compete? A: Over the last 20 years, it is difficult to find another company which exhibits such a lengthy pattern of illegal behavior designed to thwart competition. E-mail from a MS executive said it best, "It seems clear that it will be very hard to increase browser share on the merits of IE [Internet Explorer] 4 alone...It will be more important to leverage the OS asset to make people use IE instead of Navigator" (2/24/97). There have even been cases where Microsoft has stolen technology which has put companies out of business, such as San Diego's Stac Electronics. A jury found MS guilty and ordered them to pay $110 million (See www.vaxxine.com/lawyers/articles/stac.html). Q: Where does Microsoft make their money? A: Microsoft makes money largely from two product lines: operating system (Microsoft Windows XP) and office suite (Microsoft Office). Virtually every other venture that Microsoft has embarked upon has not generated a profit -- including WinCE, Xbox, MSN, WebTV, Sidewalk, MSNBC, etc. (See http://biz.yahoo.com/e/l/m/msft.html). Q: If most product lines lose money, how can they generate such large profits? A: Through illegal tactics, Microsoft has been able to secure and keep a monopoly which allows them to charge very high rates for their software. Enabled by the monopoly, Microsoft's profit margins are 5 times greater than the average from top 500 US companies. If Microsoft faced meaningful competition, their profits would be more in line with the rest of corporate America and software would cost 1/5 what it does today (See http://research.businessweek.com/scoreboard.asp). Q: Aren't all of these actions ancient history? Since Microsoft has been under government scrutiny, haven't we seen improved corporate behavior? A: Microsoft's massive war chest and unchanged management team means more corporate wrongdoing. This makes it extraordinarily difficult for competition to emerge. Just last week, an e-mail was revealed in which Microsoft executives disclosed a $180 million fund designed to thwart Linux by giving away Microsoft software and services -- the same successful strategy they used to put Netscape out of business (See www.iht.com/articles/96369.html). In another example, over the past year, Microsoft has spent millions in legal fees in an attempt to shutdown a San Diego Linux company, Lindows.com (See www.lindows.com/opposition). Q: But doesn't Microsoft do a lot of good? A: The charitable giving that Microsoft advertises is usually a business tactic, where they give away software in an attempt to gain traction in a market, such as they do with schools. The software costs them just pennies to reproduce, but they advertise the full retail value for tax and PR reasons. Microsoft rarely gives actual cash (See: www.nytimes.com/2003/05/26/technology/26SOFT.html). Q: Hasn't Mr. Gates given away billions of dollars? A: Nearly 20 years after starting Microsoft and only after antitrust issues emerged, Mr. Gates created a foundation and moved billions of dollars of stock, tax free, into this new organization, which he controls as the sole trustee. Mr. Gates' PR folks have convinced major publications to carry as many as 5 stories in 3 days about the multi-billion dollar foundation in an attempt to bolster Mr. Gates' image (See http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28039.html). By repeatedly trumpeting the formation of the foundation, then announcing individual initiatives and finally announcing individual grants, readers are left with the impression that billions of dollars are routinely dispersed, but that is simply not true. In 2001, the Gates Foundation collected more money in interest from their holdings than they dispersed in grants (See: www.fdncenter.org). More troublesome, Mr. Gates has used monies from the foundation he controls, in concert with Microsoft's corporate goals. In an attempt to sway Cox Communications to use Microsoft software, Microsoft agreed to financially back them in November, 2001. Two months later Mr. Gates purchased $500 million dollars of Cox stock using $200 million of funds from his non-profit foundation (See www.eureka-boston.org/readings/gates_foundation.htm). In another example, MS gave hundreds of millions to thwart Linux growth in the Indian government, while also making funds available from the Gates foundation to Indian government initiatives (See http://news.com.com/2100-1001-965378.html). Q: What can we expect Mr. Gates to talk about? A: Mr. Gates will likely spend some time speaking about the importance of innovation and open standards. However those are just platitudes, since their actions achieve exactly the opposite. Their monopoly is built upon proprietary formats that they have no intention of publishing (e.g. Microsoft Office file format specifications), because that would allow competition. Furthermore, they have attempted to squash any standard which they believe threatens their stranglehold -- such as MP3, HTML and Java. An internal MS document entitled "Strategic Objective" had this to say about Java: "[Lets] Kill cross-platform Java by growing the polluted Java market." In spite of the conciliatory comments Mr. Gates conveyed, Microsoft will continue to use their monopoly powers to destroy other companies - which limits competition and innovation and keeps software prices high. "Do we have a clear plan on what we want Apple to do to undermine Sun?" (Bill Gates e-mail 8/8/97) A series of recent leaked internal memos reveal an ongoing attempt by Microsoft to discredit and derail the latest perceived threat - Linux. (See www.opensource.org/halloween/) Microsoft is engaging in a calculated and comprehensive effort to rewrite history. In doing so, they position themselves as an innovative company and Mr. Gates as a visionary and philanthropist. Please research those claims for yourself on the Net, use the sources listed in this document to determine for yourself, the veracity of their claims. -- Michael Please visit support.lindows.com to answers questions you may have about LindowsOS or Lindows.com. Bringing Choice to Your Computer! About Lindows.com, Inc. Lindows.com is a consumer company that is bringing affordable software to computer users. Lindows.com, Inc. was started by Michael Robertson, founder and former CEO of MP3.com. LindowsOS is a modern, affordable and easy-to-use operating system that allows users access to hundreds of applications via the Click-N-Run (TM) Warehouse. All applications in the Click-N-Run Warehouse (www.lindows.com/warehouse) are licensed on a lifetime, per-person or family basis and can be downloaded, installed and run with just one-mouse click. LindowsOS is presently available on LindowsOS Certified Computers (www.lindows.com/pc) including a $799 laptop (www.lindows.com/799) being offered from Lindows.com Builder partners www.lindows.com/builder. LindowsOS can be ordered on CD and/or downloaded at www.lindows.com/order. Lindows.com offers a safe computing environment for family's and businesses, learn more by visiting www.lindows.com/family. LindowsOS and Lindows.com are trademarks of Lindows.com, Inc. Linux® is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds. Microsoft® Windows operating system is a registered trademark or service mark of the Microsoft Corporation. mm65 __________________________________________________________ Please do not reply to this email. To contact Lindows.com, please visit support.lindows.com. To unsubscribe or change your mailing list options please go to www.lindows.com/update ------=_NextPart_000_0276_01C32545.10FA0DE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lindows.com Michael's Minute
Interesting read about = Mr. Gates.=20 Altough he (Michael) had personal interests the facts are the facts=20 ;-)
 
Best,
 
Lopo
 
-----Mensagem Original-----=20
De: Michael=20 Robertson
Enviada em: quarta-feira, 28 de Maio de 2003 17:37
Assunto: Michael's Minute: Gates at my Alma = Mater

If=20 this message is not displaying properly, click here to launch it = in your=20 browser.

<= /TBODY>

3D""

Michael's Minute:  = Gates at=20 my Alma Mater

This week Bill Gates came to my alma mater = to speak. I=20 have to admit that I was less than thrilled to have UCSD = roll out=20 the red carpet for him, but it's understandable since he is = the=20 richest man in the world and runs the richest company in the = world.=20 I started to think about the young people who would be in = attendance=20 though, and that they were in diapers when Microsoft = started.=20 They've grown up in a Microsoft-only world, that's the only = thing=20 they know and few have any perspective about how Microsoft = came to=20 dominate the PC business. In the absence of information = otherwise,=20 they'll assume that it was through healthy, free enterprise = -- which=20 I don't believe is true.

Anyone who tracks the PC = business,=20 recognizes that Microsoft has clearly been on a propaganda = campaign=20 for the last few years to clean up their image. They have = been=20 spending big money in an effort to do so on TV, in print and = public=20 appearances. They would like the world to think of Microsoft = as an=20 innovative company and of Mr. Gates as a visionary and a=20 philanthropist. Mr. Gates is clearly very smart and = Microsoft is a=20 vicious competitor, but I'm not so sure the facts indicate = they are=20 innovative or visionary. So I've put together a two-page = background=20 on Mr. Gates and Microsoft to add some historical = perspective to the=20 debate, which I passed out to those in attendance. I hope = you find=20 it helpful to form your own conclusions. 

Fact Sheet On Bill Gates and = the=20 Microsoft Corporation

Q: = Can you=20 provide some background on Bill = Gates?
A: Bill=20 Gates was born in 1955 and founded the Microsoft = Corporation=20 in 1975 with Paul Allen. Mr. Gates was CEO and = Chairman of=20 Microsoft until 2000, when he gave up the CEO title to = Steve=20 Ballmer. During that time, Microsoft became the = largest and=20 richest software company in the world, with $46 = billion in the=20 bank and adding nearly one billion per month to that = total. It=20 has made Bill Gates the richest man in the world with = an=20 estimated wealth of $54.44 billion dollars or $187 for = every=20 man, woman and child in the United States.=20

Q: Can you provide a brief history = of=20 Microsoft?
A: In the early 1980s, IBM = asked=20 Microsoft to produce an operating system for their = upcoming=20 "personal computer." That product became MS DOS and = made=20 billions for Microsoft. Microsoft followed that up = with=20 Microsoft Windows and the components of Microsoft = Office=20 (Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel and Microsoft = PowerPoint).=20

Q: Doesn't that make Microsoft the = most=20 innovative PC software company?
A: = Virtually=20 every successful Microsoft product was either = purchased from=20 another company, or a direct copy of an existing = company's=20 successful product. Microsoft's first major success, = MS DOS,=20 was purchased from another company and renamed from = QDOS.=20 Microsoft Windows was a copy of Apple's innovative = Macintosh=20 operating system. Microsoft Word (1983) was a copy of=20 Wordperfect (1982). Microsoft Excel (1985) was a copy = of Lotus=20 1-2-3 (1983). Using revenue from their monopolies, = Microsoft=20 purchased PowerPoint (from Forethought), Frontpage = (Vermeer),=20 and Visio (Shapewear).

Q: The history = of PC=20 software is made up=20 of companies borrowing ideas = from=20 others, so what is wrong with that?
A: = To some=20 degree, almost all technology companies build on = existing=20 ideas. Microsoft, however, has often engaged in = wholesale=20 copying without adding much. With many of the original = companies gone or withering, Microsoft is embarking on = a=20 calculated plan to rewrite history and position = themselves as=20 the original innovator. For example, Microsoft now = claims that=20 they are the sole inventor of "windows" and no other = company=20 can use that term -- in spite of the fact that = Microsoft=20 Windows was such a close copy of the Apple Macintosh = that it=20 triggered a lawsuit upon its release (See http://law.richmond= .edu/jolt/v1i1/myers.html).

Q:=20 Even if they're not innovative, Microsoft's products = are used=20 so widely that they must be making great products, = which makes=20 Microsoft a great company, right?
A: = Normally,=20 when a company enjoys success it's a sign of a good = company=20 serving their customers. While Microsoft employees = have surely=20 worked hard, their success has been tainted by decades = of=20 illegal actions by Microsoft's management to secure, = maintain=20 and extend their monopoly position.

After the = success=20 of MS DOS, a competing product emerged called DR DOS, = causing=20 MS to lower their prices. Bill Gates wrote in an = e-mail, "I=20 believe people underestimate the impact DR-DOS has had = on us=20 in terms of pricing" (May 18, 1989). So Gates gave = orders to=20 executives at Microsoft to purposely sabotage DR DOS. = "Make=20 sure it [DR DOS] has problems running our software in = the=20 future." And where it didn't have problems, = programmers were=20 instructed to create bogus error messages saying that = it did.=20 The tactic worked and DR DOS was forced out of = business,=20 leaving the Microsoft monopoly. Years later, MS paid = more than=20 $100 million to settle this case -- long after DR DOS = was no=20 longer a threat (See www.drdos.com/fulls= tory/factstat.html).=20

With the MS DOS monopoly as a foundation, = Microsoft=20 continued a series of illegal actions designed to = extend their=20 monopoly to additional products, including Microsoft = Windows=20 and Microsoft Office. For example, they stifled = competition by=20 threatening and extorting computer manufacturers to = enter into=20 licenses agreeing to only carry Microsoft products. By = the=20 time the Justice Department caught up to them and = filed two=20 antitrust cases for a wide range of unfair and=20 anti-competitive actions (1993, 1996), Microsoft had = cemented=20 a massive monopoly which gave them hoards of cash to = fight any=20 company -- or even the government. Microsoft settled = the first=20 case, agreeing to change its illegal marketing = practices and=20 was found guilty in the second case (See www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/business/longterm/microsoft/= documents.htm).=20

Q: Isn't this just a case of the = losing=20 companies complaining because they couldn't=20 compete?
A: Over the last 20 years, it = is=20 difficult to find another company which exhibits such = a=20 lengthy pattern of illegal behavior designed to thwart = competition. E-mail from a MS executive said it best, = "It=20 seems clear that it will be very hard to increase = browser=20 share on the merits of IE [Internet Explorer] 4 = alone...It=20 will be more important to leverage the OS asset to = make people=20 use IE instead of Navigator" (2/24/97). There have = even been=20 cases where Microsoft has stolen technology which has = put=20 companies out of business, such as San Diego's Stac=20 Electronics. A jury found MS guilty and ordered them = to pay=20 $110 million (See www.vaxxine.co= m/lawyers/articles/stac.html).=20

Q: Where does Microsoft = make=20 their money?
A: Microsoft makes money = largely=20 from two product lines: operating system (Microsoft = Windows=20 XP) and office suite (Microsoft Office). Virtually = every other=20 venture that Microsoft has embarked upon has not = generated a=20 profit -- including WinCE, Xbox, MSN, WebTV, Sidewalk, = MSNBC,=20 etc. (See http://biz.yahoo.com/e/l/m/= msft.html).=20

Q: If most product lines lose money, = how can=20 they generate such large profits?
A: = Through=20 illegal tactics, Microsoft has been able to secure and = keep a=20 monopoly which allows them to charge very high rates = for their=20 software. Enabled by the monopoly, Microsoft's profit = margins=20 are 5 times greater than the average from top 500 US=20 companies. If Microsoft faced meaningful competition, = their=20 profits would be more in line with the rest of = corporate=20 America and software would cost 1/5 what it does today = (See http://research.= businessweek.com/scoreboard.asp).=20

Q: Aren't all of these actions = ancient=20 history? Since Microsoft has been under government = scrutiny,=20 haven't we seen improved corporate = behavior?
A:=20 Microsoft's massive war chest and unchanged management = team=20 means more corporate wrongdoing. This makes it = extraordinarily=20 difficult for competition to emerge. Just last week, = an e-mail=20 was revealed in which Microsoft executives disclosed a = $180=20 million fund designed to thwart Linux by giving away = Microsoft=20 software and services -- the same successful strategy = they=20 used to put Netscape out of business (See www.iht.com/articles/9636= 9.html).=20 In another example, over the past year, Microsoft has = spent=20 millions in legal fees in an attempt to shutdown a San = Diego=20 Linux company, Lindows.com (See www.lindows.com/opposition= ).=20

Q: But doesn't Microsoft do a lot of = good?=20
A: The charitable giving that = Microsoft=20 advertises is usually a business tactic, where they = give away=20 software in an attempt to gain traction in a market, = such as=20 they do with schools. The software costs them just = pennies to=20 reproduce, but they advertise the full retail value = for tax=20 and PR reasons. Microsoft rarely gives actual cash = (See: www.nyt= imes.com/2003/05/26/technology/26SOFT.html).=20

Q: Hasn't Mr. Gates given away = billions of=20 dollars?
A: Nearly 20 years after = starting=20 Microsoft and only after antitrust issues emerged, Mr. = Gates=20 created a foundation and moved billions of dollars of = stock,=20 tax free, into this new organization, which he = controls as the=20 sole trustee. Mr. Gates' PR folks have convinced major = publications to carry as many as 5 stories in 3 days = about the=20 multi-billion dollar foundation in an attempt to = bolster Mr.=20 Gates' image (See http://theregister= .co.uk/content/4/28039.html).=20 By repeatedly trumpeting the formation of the = foundation, then=20 announcing individual initiatives and finally = announcing=20 individual grants, readers are left with the = impression that=20 billions of dollars are routinely dispersed, but that = is=20 simply not true. In 2001, the Gates Foundation = collected more=20 money in interest from their holdings than they = dispersed in=20 grants (See: www.fdncenter.org).=20

More troublesome, Mr. Gates has used monies = from the=20 foundation he controls, in concert with Microsoft's = corporate=20 goals. In an attempt to sway Cox Communications to use = Microsoft software, Microsoft agreed to financially = back them=20 in November, 2001. Two months later Mr. Gates = purchased $500=20 million dollars of Cox stock using $200 million of = funds from=20 his non-profit foundation (See www.e= ureka-boston.org/readings/gates_foundation.htm).=20 In another example, MS gave hundreds of millions to = thwart=20 Linux growth in the Indian government, while also = making funds=20 available from the Gates foundation to Indian = government=20 initiatives (See http://news.com.com/21= 00-1001-965378.html).=20

Q: What can we expect Mr. Gates to = talk=20 about?
A: Mr. Gates will likely spend = some=20 time speaking about the importance of innovation and = open=20 standards. However those are just platitudes, since = their=20 actions achieve exactly the opposite. Their monopoly = is built=20 upon proprietary formats that they have no intention = of=20 publishing (e.g. Microsoft Office file format = specifications),=20 because that would allow competition. Furthermore, = they have=20 attempted to squash any standard which they believe = threatens=20 their stranglehold -- such as MP3, HTML and Java. An = internal=20 MS document entitled "Strategic Objective" had this to = say=20 about Java: "[Lets] Kill cross-platform Java by = growing the=20 polluted Java market."

In spite of the = conciliatory=20 comments Mr. Gates conveyed, Microsoft will continue = to use=20 their monopoly powers to destroy other companies - = which=20 limits competition and innovation and keeps software = prices=20 high. "Do we have a clear plan on what we want Apple = to do to=20 undermine Sun?" (Bill Gates e-mail 8/8/97) A series of = recent=20 leaked internal memos reveal an ongoing attempt by = Microsoft=20 to discredit and derail the latest perceived threat - = Linux.=20 (See www.opensource.org/hallowee= n/)=20

Microsoft is engaging in a = calculated=20 and comprehensive effort to rewrite history. In doing so, = they=20 position themselves as an innovative company and Mr. Gates = as a=20 visionary and philanthropist. Please research those claims = for=20 yourself on the Net, use the sources listed in this document = to=20 determine for yourself, the veracity of their claims. =

--=20 Michael

Please visit support.lindows.com to=20 answers questions you may have about LindowsOS or=20 Lindows.com.

Bringing=20 Choice to Your Computer!

About=20 Lindows.com, Inc.

Lindows.com is a consumer = company that=20 is bringing affordable software to computer users. = Lindows.com, Inc.=20 was started by Michael Robertson, founder and former CEO of = MP3.com.=20 LindowsOS is a modern, affordable and easy-to-use operating = system=20 that allows users access to hundreds of applications via the = Click-N-Run (TM) Warehouse. All applications in the = Click-N-Run=20 Warehouse (www.lindows.com/warehouse) = are licensed on a lifetime, per-person or family basis and = can be=20 downloaded, installed and run with just one-mouse click. = LindowsOS=20 is presently available on LindowsOS Certified Computers (www.lindows.com/pc) = including a=20 $799 laptop (www.lindows.com/799) = being=20 offered from Lindows.com Builder partners www.lindows.com/builder.=20 LindowsOS can be ordered on CD and/or downloaded at www.lindows.com/order.=20 Lindows.com offers a safe computing environment for = family=92s and=20 businesses, learn more by visiting www.lindows.com/family.=20

LindowsOS and=20 Lindows.com are trademarks of Lindows.com, Inc. Linux=AE is = a=20 registered trademark of Linus Torvalds. Microsoft=AE Windows = operating=20 system is a registered trademark or service mark of the = Microsoft=20 Corporation.

mm65

__________________________________________________________
Pl= ease do=20 not reply to this email. To contact Lindows.com, please visit support.lindows.com.
To unsubscribe or = change your=20 mailing list options please go to www.lindows.com/update

------=_NextPart_000_0276_01C32545.10FA0DE0-- From rms arroba 1407.org Thu May 29 01:05:01 2003 From: rms arroba 1407.org (Rui Miguel Seabra) Date: Thu May 29 00:05:01 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]Cidade de Munique migra 16,000 utilizadores para GNU/Linux Message-ID: <1054165283.2952.67.camel@roque> --=-L6pcvslCj80X+CRj/cMi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ol=C3=A1, Pelo menos em alguns estados-membros da Europa Comunit=C3=A1ria, tal como a Alemanha, as not=C3=ADcias associadas =C3=A0 aplica=C3=A7=C3=A3o de Softwar= e Livre na Administra=C3=A7=C3=A3o P=C3=BAblica s=C3=A3o n=C3=A3o s=C3=B3 boas, como r= epresentam uma estrat=C3=A9gia de continuidade, ao contr=C3=A1rio de alguns outros estados-membros que aparentam tencionar continuar no seu lugar "devido". A cidade de Munique ir=C3=A1 migrar 14000 postos de trabalho para GNU/Linux afectando 16000 utilizadores, sendo utilizado como ferramenta de Office o OpenOffice.org. Ap=C3=B3s a decis=C3=A3o do ano passado no Bunderstag, esta decis=C3=A3o ap= rovada pela "assembleia municipal" de Munique, vem no seguimento de estudos feitos que concluiam numa clara projec=C3=A7=C3=A3o de estrat=C3=A9gia qualitativa= do Software Livre, sendo a primeira grande cidade a colocar a maior parte da sua infra-estrutura de TI independente do fornecedor. Press-releases em http://linuxpr.com/releases/5893.html NOTA: estes PRs propagam a confus=C3=A3o entre kernel (o Linux) e sistema operativo (o GNU/Linux)[1], e utilizam o term "open source" que rejeitamos por motivos j=C3=A1 bastante referidos[2] [1] http://www.fsf.org/gnu/why-gnu-linux.html [2] http://www.fsfeurope.org/documents/whyfs.pt.html --=20 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? Please AVOID sending me WORD, EXCEL or POWERPOINT attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html --=-L6pcvslCj80X+CRj/cMi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA+1Ukjo+C50no0+t4RAt9EAJ9MIoMlM72+1XYEdodoTuWT/8KpYwCgvYrE 3dGykM+jT5PtdWozU17O7jo= =O8GB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-L6pcvslCj80X+CRj/cMi-- From rms arroba 1407.org Thu May 29 10:13:02 2003 From: rms arroba 1407.org (Rui Miguel Seabra) Date: Thu May 29 09:13:02 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]Cidade de Munique migra 16,000 utilizadores para GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: <1054165283.2952.67.camel@roque> References: <1054165283.2952.67.camel@roque> Message-ID: <1054199523.2952.74.camel@roque> --=-Gy5jWNiFheCz9DMeu3Cg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable J=C3=A1 agora, isto apesar do Steve Ballmer ter interrompido as suas f=C3= =A9rias para ir pessoalmente tentar demover alguns dos deputados. Rui On Wed, 2003-05-28 at 23:41, Rui Miguel Seabra wrote: > Ol=C3=A1, >=20 > Pelo menos em alguns estados-membros da Europa Comunit=C3=A1ria, tal como= a > Alemanha, as not=C3=ADcias associadas =C3=A0 aplica=C3=A7=C3=A3o de Softw= are Livre na > Administra=C3=A7=C3=A3o P=C3=BAblica s=C3=A3o n=C3=A3o s=C3=B3 boas, como= representam uma estrat=C3=A9gia > de continuidade, ao contr=C3=A1rio de alguns outros estados-membros que > aparentam tencionar continuar no seu lugar "devido". >=20 > A cidade de Munique ir=C3=A1 migrar 14000 postos de trabalho para GNU/Lin= ux > afectando 16000 utilizadores, sendo utilizado como ferramenta de Office > o OpenOffice.org. >=20 > Ap=C3=B3s a decis=C3=A3o do ano passado no Bunderstag, esta decis=C3=A3o = aprovada pela > "assembleia municipal" de Munique, vem no seguimento de estudos feitos > que concluiam numa clara projec=C3=A7=C3=A3o de estrat=C3=A9gia qualitati= va do Software > Livre, sendo a primeira grande cidade a colocar a maior parte da sua > infra-estrutura de TI independente do fornecedor. >=20 > Press-releases em http://linuxpr.com/releases/5893.html > NOTA: estes PRs propagam a confus=C3=A3o entre kernel (o Linux) e sistema > operativo (o GNU/Linux)[1], e utilizam o term "open source" que > rejeitamos por motivos j=C3=A1 bastante referidos[2] >=20 >=20 > [1] http://www.fsf.org/gnu/why-gnu-linux.html > [2] http://www.fsfeurope.org/documents/whyfs.pt.html --=20 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? Please AVOID sending me WORD, EXCEL or POWERPOINT attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html --=-Gy5jWNiFheCz9DMeu3Cg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA+1c7jo+C50no0+t4RAsX4AJ9ZKgwQL1LNf1F/KPl5mGtVAgqCAgCg2FnG C2bBtHaHb5C+vP51u6i4yNw= =e0Hb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Gy5jWNiFheCz9DMeu3Cg-- From rms arroba 1407.org Thu May 29 16:42:01 2003 From: rms arroba 1407.org (Rui Miguel Seabra) Date: Thu May 29 15:42:01 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]Abdul Kalam, Presidente da India, recomenda Software Livre Message-ID: <1054222830.2952.105.camel@roque> --=-a0aohxx0DuXFYXu/G2Jx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Abdul Kalam urge que os profissionais das TI desenvolvam e se especializem em Software Livre, em vez de solu=C3=A7=C3=B5es propriet=C3=A1= rias tal como o Microsoft Windows. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=3D4= 7799819 Neste artigo nota-se como a India est=C3=A1 aparentemente mais focada nos benef=C3=ADcios t=C3=A9cnicos e econ=C3=B3micos que derivam frequente das l= iberdades atribu=C3=ADdas. Contudo, serve para demonstrar como apesar das argumenta=C3=A7=C3=B5es "independentes" encomendadas pela Microsoft h=C3=A1 pa=C3=ADses que n=C3=A3= o as engolem cegamente. Contudo mant=C3=A9m-se a ressalva... as vantagens t=C3=A9cnicas s=C3=A3o um= resultado frequente do Software Livre, mas n=C3=A3o =C3=A9 algo necessariamente perma= nente. Pode normalmente ser mais seguro, mas isso n=C3=A3o implica que o investimento de uma empresa que desenvolve software propriet=C3=A1rio n=C3= =A3o se foque subitamente na seguran=C3=A7a. Pode ser mais barato, mas em determinadas condi=C3=A7=C3=B5es, a empresa pode at=C3=A9 doar as licen=C3= =A7as, resultando nalguns pa=C3=ADses um custo bastante superior a compr=C3=A1-las dados os benef=C3=ADcios fiscais com doa=C3=A7=C3=B5es a certas institui=C3=A7=C3=B5= es. Cumprimentos, Rui --=20 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? Please AVOID sending me WORD, EXCEL or POWERPOINT attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html --=-a0aohxx0DuXFYXu/G2Jx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA+1inuo+C50no0+t4RAr+HAJ0ezNFuQW1rDYMPFp5iOXfwTP51WACgxJ57 5IPmvRJQFjqNYRDOxTTWtZU= =F8x8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-a0aohxx0DuXFYXu/G2Jx-- From rjgn arroba netc.pt Thu May 29 20:21:01 2003 From: rjgn arroba netc.pt (Ricardo Jorge Godinho Nunes) Date: Thu May 29 19:21:01 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]Fwd: [Dicas-L] Brasil =?iso-8859-1?q?ter=E1=20plataforma=20alternativa=20de?= software, diz MCT Message-ID: <200305282002.42112.rjgn@netc.pt> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [Dicas-L] Brasil ter=E1 plataforma alternativa de software, diz = MCT Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 15:00:18 -0300 From: Dicas-L-Owner@unicamp.br To: undisclosed-recipients: ; - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Endere=E7o: http://www.Dicas-L.unicamp.br/dicas-l/20030528.shtml - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Brasil ter=E1 plataforma alternativa de software, diz MCT =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D http://computerworld.terra.com.br/AdPortalV3/adCmsDocumentoShow.aspx?docu= ment o=3D24927&Area=3D1 Ana Paula Lobo O secret=E1rio de pol=EDtica empresarial, Francelino Grando, foi muito cl= aro ao encerrar, nesta sexta-feira, 23, o evento TI Brasil - Os Rumos da Tecnologia, promovido pela Riosoft e Seprorj. "A op=E7=E3o pelo software livre n=E3o =E9 mais uma vontade pol=EDtica. =C9= uma decis=E3o de Governo. O Brasil ter=E1 uma plataforma alternativa. N=F3s, do MCT vamos formular situa=E7=F5es que permitam essa ado=E7=E3o", determ= inou o executivo. Grando salientou que esse processo ser=E1 conduzido de forma a n=E3o prejudicar os grandes sistemas do Poder Executivo. "Sabemos que h=E1 um legado grande em empresas como Dataprev, Receita Federal e outras. Mas, vamos trabalhar com o software livre em foco", emendou. Com rela=E7=E3o ao fomento da =E1rea de software, Grando conclamou as ent= idades presentes ao evento - Assespro, Fenainfo e Softex - que fosse criada uma C=E2mara Setorial para formular quest=F5es estrat=E9gicas para a elabora=E7= =E3o de uma pol=EDtica industrial para o setor. "=C9 preciso que essa reuni=E3o aconte=E7a com prazos e objetivos. Assim, poderemos encaminhar a quest=E3o o quanto antes. Mas, o foco =E9 essencial. Temos que saber onde agir e precisar os passos. S=F3 assim poderemos ampliar a participa=E7=E3o do segmento na economia brasileira. = Hoje, essa inclus=E3o =E9 muito abaixo da expectativa", concluiu Grando. Autor: Ana Paula Lobo Data: 23/05/2003 - --------------------------------------------------------------- As mensagens da lista Dicas-L s=E3o veiculadas diariamente para 21372 assinantes. Todas as mensagens da Dicas-L ficam armazenadas em http://www.Dicas-L.unicamp.br. A redistribui=E7=E3o desta e outras mensagens da lista Dicas-L pode ser feita livremente, deste que o conte=FAdo, inclusive esta nota, n=E3o sejam modificados. - --------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------- - --=20 GNU/Linux Registered User #190585 Key fingerprint =3D 478B C11B 3802 D151 CDB1 309E 69BF 6F02 352C 9ED3 - - ---- http://fs-oss.cjb.net - - ---- "Some things -and an operating system is one of them- are just too fundam= ental to be locked up in a box. It's basic infrastructure and basic infrastructure must be shared techno= logy" Daniel Frye IBM's Linux Technology Center - - ---- let's wake up the ECHELON.... "Kill the President" , "nuclear", "assassinate" , "Roswell", "UFO" , "eni= gma"=20 , "saucer" , "grudge" , "the farm" , "snowbird" , "dreamland" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (Linux) iD8DBQE+1QfQab9vAjUsntMRAlOCAJ9do187b4AYSljltzwAep1Bwgt7AwCeLTN8 iI3dQ4NpupkLK7kYXae+TWc=3D =3DuKyr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From villate arroba gnu.org Fri May 30 16:59:02 2003 From: villate arroba gnu.org (Jaime E. Villate) Date: Fri May 30 15:59:02 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]Visita de Richard Stallman Message-ID: <20030530155920.J510@fe.up.pt> Viva, junto o comunicado de impressa que acavou de ser distribu=EDdo a v=E1rios contactos. Podem divulgar onde quiserem. Jaime Villate -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - Richard Stallman, fundador do Movimento de Software Livre, estar=E1 em Po= rtugal =09 (Lisboa) Richard Stallman, fundador do Movimento de Software Livre, fundador do projecto GNU, fundador e presidente da Free Software Foundation estar=E1 dia 9 de Junho em Lisboa para participar em dois eventos em Lisboa. Na manh=E3 de dia 9 de Junho, Richard Stallman dar=E1 uma palestra, seguida de um per=EDodo de perguntas e respostas, com o tema "The Free Software Movement and the GNU/Linux Operating System". A palestra decorrer=E1 no audit=F3rio principal do Instituto Superior T=E9cnico no TagusPark, em Oeiras das 10h30 =E0s 13h. A entrada =E9 gratuita. O F=F3rum Social Portugu=EAs realiza-se de 7 a 10 de Junho de 2003 na Cidade Universit=E1ria em Lisboa. O F=F3rum =E9 um espa=E7o de encontro e discuss=E3o, plural e diverso, das organiza=E7=F5es, activistas e movimen= tos sociais portugueses. Richard Stallman participar=E1 num encontro sobre Software Livre que decorrer=E1 na tarde de dia 9 de Junho. A sua participa=E7=E3o ter=E1 o tema "Copyright vs Community in the Age of Computer Networks". Esta visita de Richard Stallman a Portugal =E9 apoiada pela ANSOL, Universidade Popular do Porto, Departamento de F=EDsica da Universidade de Lisboa e Departamento de Engenharia Inform=E1tica do Instituto Superior T=E9cnico. NOTA: Se houver interesse na realiza=E7=E3o de uma entrevista, por favor contactem Jo=E3o Neves (contactos presentes no fim deste comunicado). Sobre Software Livre: O Software Livre consiste em software que permite a liberdade de ser utilizado para qualquer fim; a liberdade de estudar o software e adapt=E1-lo =E0s necessidades; a liberdade para distribuir o software e a liberdade de distribuir vers=F5es modificadas do software. "Estas liberdades oferecem independ=EAncia do utilizador em rela=E7=E3o a= os fornecedores, fiabilidade, custos de licenciamento baixos ou mesmo nulos, suporte dispon=EDvel por entidades diversas, seguran=E7a e escalabilidade" disse Eng. Jo=E3o Neves, membro da direc=E7=E3o da ANSOL.= "O Software Livre aparece como uma resposta da sociedade =E0s limita=E7=F5es existentes quer em termos de licenciamento, quer em termos de suporte impostas pelos produtores de software propriet=E1rio." Sobre Richard Stallman: Richard Stallman formou-se em Harvard em 1974 com uma licenciatura em F=EDsica. Durante os seus anos universit=E1rios tamb=E9m trabalhou como =ABhacker=BB (*) no Laborat=F3rio de Intelig=EAncia Artificial do MIT, aprendendo como desenvolver sistemas operativos, fazendo-o. Em 1975 escreveu a primeira vers=E3o do editor extens=EDvel "Emacs". Em Janeiro d= e 1984 demitiu-se do MIT para iniciar o projecto GNU. Stallman =E9 o fundador do projecto GNU, lan=E7ado em 1984 para desenvolver o sistema operativo livre GNU (acr=F3nimo de "GNU N=E3o =E9 Unix") e, desta forma, dar aos utilizadores de computadores a liberdade que a maioria perdeu. GNU =E9 Software Livre: todos s=E3o livre= s de copi=E1-lo e redistribu=ED-lo, bem como de fazer quer modifica=E7=F5es grandes, quer pequenas. Stallman recebeu o pr=E9mio Grace Hopper em 1991 da Association for Computing Machinery (Associa=E7=E3o para a Computa=E7=E3o), pelo seu desenvolvimento do editor Emacs. Em 1996 recebeu um doutoramento honoris causa do Real Instituto de Tecnologia da Su=E9cia. Em 1998 recebeu o pr=E9mio de pioneiro da Electronic Frontier Foundation (Funda=E7=E3o para a Fronteira Electr=F3nica) em conjunto com Linus Torvalds. Em 1999 recebeu o pr=E9mio Yuri Rubinski. Em 2001 recebeu um doutoramento honoris causa pela Universidade de Glasgow e partilhou o pr=E9mio Takeda para a melhoria social/econ=F3mica em conjunto com Linus Torvalds e Kene Sakamura. Em 2002 foi eleito para a National Academy of Engineering (Academia Nacional de Engenharia - EUA). (*) - Perito em inform=E1tica, o que adora aprender sobre um determinado assunto. A palavra =ABhacker=BB =E9 usada aqui com o seu significado original e n=E3o com o significado de "pirata inform=E1tico" ou aquele qu= e comete um delito relacionado com Direito Inform=E1tico. Sobre a ANSOL: A finalidade da ANSOL =E9 a divulga=E7=E3o, promo=E7=E3o, desenvolvimento= , investiga=E7=E3o e estudo da Inform=E1tica Livre e das suas repercuss=F5e= s sociais, pol=EDticas, filos=F3ficas, culturais, t=E9cnicas e cient=EDfica= s. A ANSOL =E9 a primeira associa=E7=E3o de Software Livre em Portugal. A ANSOL =E9 uma organiza=E7=E3o associada da Free Software Foundation Eur= ope e da Alian=E7a Eurolinux. Ap=F3s a sua apresenta=E7=E3o ao p=FAblico no Porto - Cidade Tecnol=F3gic= a em Outubro de 2001, a ANSOL ganhou exist=EAncia legal em Janeiro de 2002. A direcc=E7=E3o actual, liderada pelo Prof. Jaime Villate da Faculdade de Engenharia da Universidade do Porto, tem criado uma din=E2mica que permitiu a participa=E7=E3o em dezenas de eventos, a organiza=E7=E3o do e= vento Porto - Cidade Tecnol=F3gica em conjunto com a C=E2mara Municipal do Port= o e a Faculdade de Engenharia da Universidade do Porto, a defesa do Software Livre em rela=E7=E3o a anteprojectos-lei como a implementa=E7=E3= o da directiva 2001/29/EC ou a proposta de directiva comunit=E1ria COM(2002)92 que cria patentes de software na Uni=E3o Europeia. O pr=F3ximo evento programado em conjunto com a Ordem dos Engenheiros =E9 o Semin=E1rio "Software Livre: Mitos e Realidades" a realizar na Sede da Ordem dos Engenheiros, dia 17 de Junho de 2003 a partir das 14h30. A ANSOL ser=E1 representada por Rui Seabra no dia 4 de Junho nas Jornadas de Inform=E1tica a decorrer na Universidade do Minho. Para mais informa=E7=F5es: ANSOL - http://www.ansol.org/ GNU - http://www.gnu.org/ P=E1gina pessoal de Richard Stallman - http://www.stallman.org/ UPP - http://www.upp.pt/ FSP - http://www.forumsocialportugues.org/ Contactos: ANSOL - Associa=E7=E3o Nacional para o Software Livre Rua Manuel Almeida Rouxinol, 133 A - R/C C 4405-780 Vila Nova de Gaia Telefone: (+351) 225 081 676 Fax: (+351) 225 081 449 Eng. Jo=E3o Miguel Neves (joao.neves@ansol.org) Vice-Presidente da ANSOL Telem=F3vel: (+351) 933 252 302 E-mail: direccao@ansol.org From rms arroba 1407.org Fri May 30 17:17:01 2003 From: rms arroba 1407.org (Rui Miguel Seabra) Date: Fri May 30 16:17:01 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C9?= sempre bom recordar factos... Message-ID: <1054311334.3192.55.camel@roque> --=-p5OTbIgxweS2I3kGXoIT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable O que aqui vem s=C3=A3o uma s=C3=A9rie de _factos_ ao longo do tempo, que o Michael Robertson (mp3.com, Lindows) reuniu e sumariou: http://www.lindows.com/lindows_michaelsminutes.php Gates at my Alma Mater This week Bill Gates came to my alma mater to speak. I have to admit that I was less than thrilled to have UCSD roll out the red carpet for him, but it's understandable since he is the richest man in the world and runs the richest company in the world. I started to think about the young people who would be in attendance though, and that they were in diapers when Microsoft started. They've grown up in a Microsoft-only world, that's the only thing they know and few have any perspective about how Microsoft came to dominate the PC business. In the absence of information otherwise, they'll assume that it was through healthy, free enterprise -- which I don't believe is true.=20 Anyone who tracks the PC business, recognises that Microsoft has clearly been on a propaganda campaign for the last few years to clean up their image. They have been spending big money in an effort to do so on TV, in print and public appearances. They would like the world to think of Microsoft as an innovative company and of Mr. Gates as a visionary and a philanthropist. Mr. Gates is clearly very smart and Microsoft is a vicious competitor, but I'm not so sure the facts indicate they are innovative or visionary. So I've put together a two-page background on Mr. Gates and Microsoft to add some historical perspective to the debate, which I passed out to those in attendance. I hope you find it helpful to form your own conclusions.=20 Fact Sheet On Bill Gates and the Microsoft Corporation=20 Q: Can you provide some background on Bill Gates? A: Bill Gates was born in 1955 and founded the Microsoft Corporation in 1975 with Paul Allen. Mr. Gates was CEO and Chairman of Microsoft until 2000, when he gave up the CEO title to Steve Ballmer. During that time, Microsoft became the largest and richest software company in the world, with $46 billion in the bank and adding nearly one billion per month to that total. It has made Bill Gates the richest man in the world with an estimated wealth of $54.44 billion dollars or $187 for every man, woman and child in the United States.=20 Q: Can you provide a brief history of Microsoft? A: In the early 1980s, IBM asked Microsoft to produce an operating system for their upcoming "personal computer." That product became MS DOS and made billions for Microsoft. Microsoft followed that up with Microsoft Windows and the components of Microsoft Office (Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel and Microsoft PowerPoint).=20 Q: Doesn't that make Microsoft the most innovative PC software company? A: Virtually every successful Microsoft product was either purchased from another company, or a direct copy of an existing company's successful product. Microsoft's first major success, MS DOS, was purchased from another company and renamed from QDOS. Microsoft Windows was a copy of Apple's innovative Macintosh operating system. Microsoft Word (1983) was a copy of Wordperfect (1982). Microsoft Excel (1985) was a copy of Lotus 1-2-3 (1983). Using revenue from their monopolies, Microsoft purchased PowerPoint (from Forethought), Frontpage (Vermeer), and Visio (Shapewear). Q: The history of PC software is made up of companies borrowing ideas from others, so what is wrong with that? A: To some degree, almost all technology companies build on existing ideas. Microsoft, however, has often engaged in wholesale copying without adding much. With many of the original companies gone or withering, Microsoft is embarking on a calculated plan to rewrite history and position themselves as the original innovator. For example, Microsoft now claims that they are the sole inventor of "windows" and no other company can use that term -- in spite of the fact that Microsoft Windows was such a close copy of the Apple Macintosh that it triggered a lawsuit upon its release (See http://law.richmond.edu/jolt/v1i1/myers.html). Q: Even if they're not innovative, Microsoft's products are used so widely that they must be making great products, which makes Microsoft a great company, right? A: Normally, when a company enjoys success it's a sign of a good company serving their customers. While Microsoft employees have surely worked hard, their success has been tainted by decades of illegal actions by Microsoft's management to secure, maintain and extend their monopoly position.=20 After the success of MS DOS, a competing product emerged called DR DOS, causing MS to lower their prices. Bill Gates wrote in an e-mail, "I believe people underestimate the impact DR-DOS has had on us in terms of pricing" (May 18, 1989). So Gates gave orders to executives at Microsoft to purposely sabotage DR DOS. "Make sure it [DR DOS] has problems running our software in the future." And where it didn't have problems, programmers were instructed to create bogus error messages saying that it did. The tactic worked and DR DOS was forced out of business, leaving the Microsoft monopoly. Years later, MS paid more than $100 million to settle this case -- long after DR DOS was no longer a threat (See www.drdos.com/fullstory/factstat.html).=20 With the MS DOS monopoly as a foundation, Microsoft continued a series of illegal actions designed to extend their monopoly to additional products, including Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office. For example, they stifled competition by threatening and extorting computer manufacturers to enter into licenses agreeing to only carry Microsoft products. By the time the Justice Department caught up to them and filed two antitrust cases for a wide range of unfair and anti-competitive actions (1993, 1996), Microsoft had cemented a massive monopoly which gave them hoards of cash to fight any company -- or even the government. Microsoft settled the first case, agreeing to change its illegal marketing practices and was found guilty in the second case (See www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/business/longterm/microsoft/documents.htm).=20 Q: Isn't this just a case of the losing companies complaining because they couldn't compete? A: Over the last 20 years, it is difficult to find another company which exhibits such a lengthy pattern of illegal behavior designed to thwart competition. E-mail from a MS executive said it best, "It seems clear that it will be very hard to increase browser share on the merits of IE [Internet Explorer] 4 alone...It will be more important to leverage the OS asset to make people use IE instead of Navigator" (2/24/97). There have even been cases where Microsoft has stolen technology which has put companies out of business, such as San Diego's Stac Electronics. A jury found MS guilty and ordered them to pay $110 million (See www.vaxxine.com/lawyers/articles/stac.html).=20 Q: Where does Microsoft make their money? A: Microsoft makes money largely from two product lines: operating system (Microsoft Windows XP) and office suite (Microsoft Office). Virtually every other venture that Microsoft has embarked upon has not generated a profit -- including WinCE, Xbox, MSN, WebTV, Sidewalk, MSNBC, etc. (See http://biz.yahoo.com/e/l/m/msft.html).=20 Q: If most product lines lose money, how can they generate such large profits?=20 A: Through illegal tactics, Microsoft has been able to secure and keep a monopoly which allows them to charge very high rates for their software. Enabled by the monopoly, Microsoft's profit margins are 5 times greater than the average from top 500 US companies. If Microsoft faced meaningful competition, their profits would be more in line with the rest of corporate America and software would cost 1/5 what it does today (See http://research.businessweek.com/scoreboard.asp).=20 Q: Aren't all of these actions ancient history? Since Microsoft has been under government scrutiny, haven't we seen improved corporate behavior? A: Microsoft's massive war chest and unchanged management team means more corporate wrongdoing. This makes it extraordinarily difficult for competition to emerge. Just last week, an e-mail was revealed in which Microsoft executives disclosed a $180 million fund designed to thwart Linux by giving away Microsoft software and services -- the same successful strategy they used to put Netscape out of business (See www.iht.com/articles/96369.html). In another example, over the past year, Microsoft has spent millions in legal fees in an attempt to shutdown a San Diego Linux company, Lindows.com (See www.lindows.com/opposition).=20 Q: But doesn't Microsoft do a lot of good?=20 A: The charitable giving that Microsoft advertises is usually a business tactic, where they give away software in an attempt to gain traction in a market, such as they do with schools. The software costs them just pennies to reproduce, but they advertise the full retail value for tax and PR reasons. Microsoft rarely gives actual cash (See: www.nytimes.com/2003/05/26/technology/26SOFT.html).=20 Q: Hasn't Mr. Gates given away billions of dollars? A: Nearly 20 years after starting Microsoft and only after antitrust issues emerged, Mr. Gates created a foundation and moved billions of dollars of stock, tax free, into this new organization, which he controls as the sole trustee. Mr. Gates' PR folks have convinced major publications to carry as many as 5 stories in 3 days about the multi-billion dollar foundation in an attempt to bolster Mr. Gates' image (See http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28039.html). By repeatedly trumpeting the formation of the foundation, then announcing individual initiatives and finally announcing individual grants, readers are left with the impression that billions of dollars are routinely dispersed, but that is simply not true. In 2001, the Gates Foundation collected more money in interest from their holdings than they dispersed in grants (See: www.fdncenter.org).=20 More troublesome, Mr. Gates has used monies from the foundation he controls, in concert with Microsoft's corporate goals. In an attempt to sway Cox Communications to use Microsoft software, Microsoft agreed to financially back them in November, 2001. Two months later Mr. Gates purchased $500 million dollars of Cox stock using $200 million of funds from his non-profit foundation (See www.eureka-boston.org/readings/gates_foundation.htm). In another example, MS gave hundreds of millions to thwart Linux growth in the Indian government, while also making funds available from the Gates foundation to Indian government initiatives (See http://news.com.com/2100-1001-965378.html).=20 Q: What can we expect Mr. Gates to talk about?=20 A: Mr. Gates will likely spend some time speaking about the importance of innovation and open standards. However those are just platitudes, since their actions achieve exactly the opposite. Their monopoly is built upon proprietary formats that they have no intention of publishing (e.g. Microsoft Office file format specifications), because that would allow competition. Furthermore, they have attempted to squash any standard which they believe threatens their stranglehold -- such as MP3, HTML and Java. An internal MS document entitled "Strategic Objective" had this to say about Java: "[Lets] Kill cross-platform Java by growing the polluted Java market."=20 In spite of the conciliatory comments Mr. Gates conveyed, Microsoft will continue to use their monopoly powers to destroy other companies - which limits competition and innovation and keeps software prices high. "Do we have a clear plan on what we want Apple to do to undermine Sun?" (Bill Gates e-mail 8/8/97) A series of recent leaked internal memos reveal an ongoing attempt by Microsoft to discredit and derail the latest perceived threat - Linux. (See www.opensource.org/halloween/)=20 Microsoft is engaging in a calculated and comprehensive effort to rewrite history. In doing so, they position themselves as an innovative company and Mr. Gates as a visionary and philanthropist. Please research those claims for yourself on the Net, use the sources listed in this document to determine for yourself, the veracity of their claims.=20 -- Michael=20 --=20 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? Please AVOID sending me WORD, EXCEL or POWERPOINT attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html --=-p5OTbIgxweS2I3kGXoIT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA+14Omo+C50no0+t4RAh2KAJ97w2qn0HKfG/XteDo8eF0Ibr9MkQCfV0XF fkYsqFsY6yis5u5o0VmorRk= =L9U7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-p5OTbIgxweS2I3kGXoIT-- From villate arroba gnu.org Fri May 30 18:01:02 2003 From: villate arroba gnu.org (Jaime E. Villate) Date: Fri May 30 17:01:02 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]Visita de Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <20030530155920.J510@fe.up.pt>; from villate@gnu.org on Fri, May 30, 2003 at 03:59:20PM +0100 References: <20030530155920.J510@fe.up.pt> Message-ID: <20030530170038.O510@fe.up.pt> On Fri, May 30, 2003 at 03:59:20PM +0100, Jaime E. Villate wrote: > junto o comunicado de impressa que acavou de ser distribu=EDdo a v=E1ri= os ^ :) desculpem a gralha. =C9 pelas duas teclas estarem t=E3o perto uma da o= utra, e n=E3o por nenhuma raz=E3o geogr=E1fica. From rjgn arroba netc.pt Fri May 30 22:41:01 2003 From: rjgn arroba netc.pt (Ricardo Jorge Godinho Nunes) Date: Fri May 30 21:41:01 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]Visita de Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <20030530155920.J510@fe.up.pt> References: <20030530155920.J510@fe.up.pt> Message-ID: <200305301934.02638.rjgn@netc.pt> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday 30 May 2003 15:59, Jaime E. Villate wrote: > junto o comunicado de impressa que acavou de ser distribu=EDdo a v=E1ri= os > contactos. Podem divulgar onde quiserem. > > Jaime Villate > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------= --- > > Richard Stallman, fundador do Movimento de Software Livre, estar=E1 em > Portugal n=E3o seria poss=EDvel a malta da TSF lhe fazer uma entrevista, bem como = uma televis=E3o gen=E9rica, quanto =E0 TSF existe aquela r=FAbrica penso que = quase di=E1ria, em que s=E3o entrevistadas diversas personalidades quer naciona= is quer internacionais, n=E3o deveriamos desperdi=E7ar esta oportunidade, ainda p= or cima agora que existem muitas not=EDcias positivas, tais como, Munique, Extrem= adura espanhola, Andaluzia etc. quanto =E0 televis=E3o, no jornal das 22h no 2=BA Canal seria uma boa ide= ia, e se poss=EDvel convidar a F=E1tima Campos (penso que =E9 assim) para que ela = fizesse um Pr=F3s e contras sobre o tema. ningu=E9m tem contactos para isso??? Ricardo Jorge - -- GNU/Linux Registered User #190585 Key fingerprint =3D 478B C11B 3802 D151 CDB1 309E 69BF 6F02 352C 9ED3 - - ---- http://fs-oss.cjb.net - - ---- "Some things -and an operating system is one of them- are just too fundam= ental to be locked up in a box. It's basic infrastructure and basic infrastructure must be shared techno= logy" Daniel Frye IBM's Linux Technology Center - - ---- let's wake up the ECHELON.... "Kill the President" , "nuclear", "assassinate" , "Roswell", "UFO" , "eni= gma" , "saucer" , "grudge" , "the farm" , "snowbird" , "dreamland" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (Linux) iD8DBQE+16Tsab9vAjUsntMRAvezAJ4o643eRUN+NDm/fHEL7WjcBd9huACgz1Bt fs8ZG788mLhwjQ2Hy7dCvpk=3D =3Desgo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From benoit.sibaud arroba wanadoo.fr Sat May 31 01:15:01 2003 From: benoit.sibaud arroba wanadoo.fr (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Beno=EEt?= Sibaud) Date: Sat May 31 00:15:01 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]Free software and world heritage Message-ID: <20030531001707.4267ab78.benoit.sibaud@wanadoo.fr> Hi, [I don't read ansol-geral@, I just found your mails while crawling the web for the project pressbook, so please keep me in CC: if you answer to ansol-geral@ (I don't read Portuguese, but Babelfish'll help me)] The "Free software and world heritage" project (FSF France/APRIL) has been discussed on ANSOL-geral list in March. http://listas.ansol.org/pipermail/ansol-geral/2003-February/002361.html http://listas.ansol.org/pipermail/ansol-geral/2003-February/002366.html http://listas.ansol.org/pipermail/ansol-geral/2003-February/002367.html In the last mail, an official support is mentionned. Does ANSOL agree to be referenced as support on http://fsfeurope.org/projects/mankind/support page, like the FSF India (which also advertised the project on its homepage)?. Other ways to help are listed on http://fsfeurope.org/projects/mankind/help Anyway, the last news: We are currently discussing with the "World memory" UNESCO project guys: you can see the "Free software" nomination for the project on http://fsfeurope.org/projects/mankind/done (direct link to UNESCO site http://portal.unesco.org/ci/ev.php?URL_ID=3D6872&URL_DO=3DDO_TOPIC&URL_SECT= ION=3D201&reload=3D1048114900 ). A first official answer should come quickly, as the committee recommandation for the UNESCO meeting at Gdansk (Poland, august 2003). Regards, --=20 Beno=EEt Sibaud "Free software and world heritage" http://fsfeurope.org/projects/mankind From rjgn arroba netc.pt Sat May 31 23:28:01 2003 From: rjgn arroba netc.pt (Ricardo Jorge Godinho Nunes) Date: Sat May 31 22:28:01 2003 Subject: [ANSOL-geral]SCO-IBM Vs Timeline Inc-Microsoft : Better off with Linux -recortes- Message-ID: <200305311930.59648.rjgn@netc.pt> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 "Title SCO-IBM Vs Timeline Inc-Microsoft : Better off with Linux Date 2003.05.31 8:41 Author roblimo Topic GNU/Linux http://newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/05/31/1244201 NZheretic writes, "If you are concerned over the treat of lawsuits over intellectual property then you are actually in a better legal position using GPL'ed Linux than using Microsoft's products. While SCO has yet to provide any publicly available substantial evidence in their case against IBM and Linux, Timeline Inc has already won a US Washington Court of Appeal judgment against Microsoft in another contract dispute. Unlike companies like Oracle Corporation and others, Microsoft chose a cheaper option when licensing Timeline Inc's Data base technology. That license puts developers and users of Microsoft SQL Server,Office and other Microsoft product at risk of being sued by Timeline Inc for violation of Timeline Inc patents. Microsoft's products do not provide users and developers an absolute safe haven from the threat from lawsuits based on violations of intellectual property. Microsoft's EULA provide the developer and end user with no protection against threat from current or future intellectual property lawsuits. "However, since the SCO Group has knowingly sold and distributed the GPL licensed Linux kernel and other components, it must by the terms of the GPL license, provide all those who receive the code from them an implicit license to use any intellectual property, patents or trade secrets which SCO owns and is used by the GPL'ed source code. That implicit license to that SCO intellectual property is also granted to anybody who subsequently receives the GPL source. "The GPL only grants the right, for reasons of intellectual property infringement or contractual obligations, to stop distributing the GPL'e binaries and source code if the conditions are imposed upon you by a third party. Since SCO claims ownership the intellectual property in question, it must grant all subsequent recipients of the GPL licensed source code SCO has distributed and any GPL'ed derivative, the same implicit licence and right to SCO's intellectual property the code imposes upon. "SCO has acknowledged deals with Suse and Lindows to distribute SCO's intellectual property in GPL'ed Linux, but the GPL license does not grant anyone or any organization the right to append extra terms and conditions upon the recipients of the GPL licensed source code. "It is very easy to effectively fold the current development branches of the Linux kernel and any other GPL'ed code back into SCO's distributed GPL'ed sources. This would grant the same implicit license for the infringed SCO intellectual property to the all the current development. "You are in a better legal position using the GPL'ed Linux platform and other GPL'ed software, than you are using Microsoft's or any other closed source software." The opinions in this article belong to its author, and may or may not be shared by NewsForge editors and OSDN management. Links 1. "US Washington Court of Appeal judgment against Microsoft" - http://www.tmln.com/press.htm 2. "risk of being sued by Timeline Inc for violation of Timeline Inc patents" - http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/53/29419.html 3. "it must by the terms of the GPL license" - http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html" Ricardo Jorge - -- GNU/Linux Registered User #190585 Key fingerprint = 478B C11B 3802 D151 CDB1 309E 69BF 6F02 352C 9ED3 - - ---- http://fs-oss.cjb.net - - ---- "Some things -and an operating system is one of them- are just too fundamental to be locked up in a box. It's basic infrastructure and basic infrastructure must be shared technology" Daniel Frye IBM's Linux Technology Center - - ---- let's wake up the ECHELON.... "Kill the President" , "nuclear", "assassinate" , "Roswell", "UFO" , "enigma" , "saucer" , "grudge" , "the farm" , "snowbird" , "dreamland" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (Linux) iD8DBQE+2PTiab9vAjUsntMRAoTBAJ9aD4BqjWDJxblscB1VVgRUvhabGACdG/6H lnOOcf8ltJIvRmgea9W0WCk= =gSyN -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----